Consciousness

[Nakosis]

What is consciousness?

To know what it is we have to start by defining it.

Consciousness-the state of being aware, aware of one's surroundings.

In this sense, computer system have consciousness. Consciousness is necessary for self-driving cars.

I think the definition folks are looking for is that consciousness in the sense of being aware of being aware.

I can contemplate a process for how this works:

The brain, our brain creates an illusion of itself. A non-physical "I" that everything which happens we understand to happen to this "I". The brain then identifies with the "I". So while the brain is awa of what is happening to it, it projects these happenings onto the illusionary "I" so we, the brain, feels it is aware of this "existence" self experiencing these happenings.

The awareness of being aware, but we are actually not. The trick is how the brain can so completely identify with the "I".

I see it with virtual reality games. We so identify with the person in the virtual world we accept that what is happening to this virtual character is actually happening to us.

This to me is the "magic" trick we don't yet understand. How the brain immerses itself into this virtual identity it creates for itself. So much so that for the spiritualist the "I" is the real self, the physical brain is not.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Seems like what you are describing to me is the ego. Consciousness has to be more than that, though, doesn't it?

 

[Nakosis]

Seems like what you are describing to me is the ego. Consciousness has to be more than that, though, doesn't it?

Yes, I think I need to study Freud more.
Freud divides the mind into 3 parts, the id, the ego and the super ego.
The id being our unconscious desire, the super ego being the ideal self and he ego, task with the duty of bridging the gap between the two.
I suppose the devil, God and us stuck in the middle. I don't think quite the same but maybe parallels.

It does feel like something is missing but I'm not sure what.
Even while intellectually holding this view, I can't stop feeling there is something more here than a simple physical process.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Yes, I think I need to study Freud more.
Freud divides the mind into 3 parts, the id, the ego and the super ego.
The id being our unconscious desire, the super ego being the ideal self and he ego, task with the duty of bridging the gap between the two.
I suppose the devil, God and us stuck in the middle. I don't think quite the same but maybe parallels.

It does feel like something is missing but I'm not sure what.
Even while intellectually holding this view, I can't stop feeling there is something more here than a simple physical process.

Really? I've felt my mental processes slow down and slip away in the past, and this has given me the impression that we are all just a bunch of meat machines that can power down when our brain's processes stop. It feels like there's something more, but all that really is an illusion of the ego and "self identity" it seems. It's an effective illusion, though.

I've seen what brain trauma can do to others, though. Their entire sense of self changes when those parts of the brain are damaged, it seems. The brain forms new pathways and new connections are made. The old person dies and a new one is born.

 

[George-ananda]

In my Advaita philosophy, Consciousness/Brahman/Atman is the ground/basis of reality. This Consciousness incarnates (animates) the body. Consciousness is what separates animate from inanimate objects.

What Consciousness 'IS' is something we can not get our minds behind. It has been described as pure infinite sat-cit-ananda (being-awareness-bliss) by those masters that have stilled all the noisy levels of their mind and experienced full Brahman-Realization moments.

A spark of this infinite Consciousness is the little voice/experiencer we imagine as being in our head.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yes, I think I need to study Freud more.

Do you not think psychoanalysis to be a pseudoscience?

 

[Nakosis]

Do you not think psychoanalysis to be a pseudoscience?

I keep running into comparisons to Freud. I'm just curious whether I am treading over ground that's already been tread over.

I guess I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other. I would strongly question it though.

 

[Secret Chief]

I keep running into comparisons to Freud. I'm just curious whether I am treading over ground that's already been tread over.

I guess I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other. I would strongly question it though.

Personally, I'm not completely dismissive of his ideas; I just think it's more philosophical speculation rather than science.

 

[Yerda]

What is consciousness?

To know what it is we have to start by defining it.

Consciousness-the state of being aware, aware of one's surroundings.

In this sense, computer system have consciousness. Consciousness is necessary for self-driving cars.

I think the definition folks are looking for is that consciousness in the sense of being aware of being aware.

Hullo.

I'd say this is a higher form of consciousness. The kind associated with abstract reasoning. Consciousness is much better understood as experience. Anything that has experiences of any description is conscious to some extent.

This makes the definition easy and instantly grasped by anything with consciousness.

What do you think?

I can contemplate a process for how this works:

The brain, our brain creates an illusion of itself. A non-physical "I" that everything which happens we understand to happen to this "I". The brain then identifies with the "I". So while the brain is awa of what is happening to it, it projects these happenings onto the illusionary "I" so we, the brain, feels it is aware of this "existence" self experiencing these happenings.

The awareness of being aware, but we are actually not. The trick is how the brain can so completely identify with the "I".

I see it with virtual reality games. We so identify with the person in the virtual world we accept that what is happening to this virtual character is actually happening to us.

This to me is the "magic" trick we don't yet understand. How the brain immerses itself into this virtual identity it creates for itself. So much so that for the spiritualist the "I" is the real self, the physical brain is not.

This sounds similar to the description of the conscious self given by Thomas Metzinger. The self is a part of the brain's model of the world - the part that is infinitely close to the centre of the model in some sense. You might find his work interesting.

 

[syo]

What is consciousness?

I have not a clue.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What is consciousness?

To know what it is we have to start by defining it.

Consciousness-the state of being aware, aware of one's surroundings.

In this sense, computer system have consciousness. Consciousness is necessary for self-driving cars.

I think the definition folks are looking for is that consciousness in the sense of being aware of being aware.

I can contemplate a process for how this works:

The brain, our brain creates an illusion of itself. A non-physical "I" that everything which happens we understand to happen to this "I". The brain then identifies with the "I". So while the brain is awa of what is happening to it, it projects these happenings onto the illusionary "I" so we, the brain, feels it is aware of this "existence" self experiencing these happenings.

The awareness of being aware, but we are actually not. The trick is how the brain can so completely identify with the "I".

I see it with virtual reality games. We so identify with the person in the virtual world we accept that what is happening to this virtual character is actually happening to us.

This to me is the "magic" trick we don't yet understand. How the brain immerses itself into this virtual identity it creates for itself. So much so that for the spiritualist the "I" is the real self, the physical brain is not.

I see it as being aggregated with an amazing way of communicating. After all. We are made up of cells and other living organisms of which makes up this singular 'I'.

I think we are essentially organic mechs.

 

[Nakosis]

I see it as being aggregated with an amazing way of communicating. After all. We are made up of cells and other living organisms of which makes up this singular 'I'.

I think we are essentially organic mechs.

Without the built in rocket launchers.

 

[sayak83]

What is consciousness?

To know what it is we have to start by defining it.

Consciousness-the state of being aware, aware of one's surroundings.

In this sense, computer system have consciousness. Consciousness is necessary for self-driving cars.

I think the definition folks are looking for is that consciousness in the sense of being aware of being aware.

I can contemplate a process for how this works:

The brain, our brain creates an illusion of itself. A non-physical "I" that everything which happens we understand to happen to this "I". The brain then identifies with the "I". So while the brain is awa of what is happening to it, it projects these happenings onto the illusionary "I" so we, the brain, feels it is aware of this "existence" self experiencing these happenings.

The awareness of being aware, but we are actually not. The trick is how the brain can so completely identify with the "I".

I see it with virtual reality games. We so identify with the person in the virtual world we accept that what is happening to this virtual character is actually happening to us.

This to me is the "magic" trick we don't yet understand. How the brain immerses itself into this virtual identity it creates for itself. So much so that for the spiritualist the "I" is the real self, the physical brain is not.

Consciousness is the subjective presence of the experiential and mental states. It cannot be generated from physical interactions but is an independent element of reality that is instantiated in some physical systems.

 

[Nakosis]

Consciousness is the subjective presence of the experiential and mental states. It cannot be generated from physical interactions but is an independent element of reality that is instantiated in some physical systems.

Independent of what? The physical brain?

If who we are is attributed to a non-physical substance independent of the brain, then physical damage to this organ should not change a person. But there is an overwhelming amount of neuropsychological evidence to suggest that this is, in fact, not only possible, but relatively common.
Can a brain injury change who you are?

If damage to the brain can change our personality then what does this independent element actually do?

Damage to the brain can cause memory loss. So personality and memory seem tied to the physical brain. So if we remove the brain, what would consciousness be without our memories and our personality?

 

[sayak83]

Independent of what? The physical brain?

If who we are is attributed to a non-physical substance independent of the brain, then physical damage to this organ should not change a person. But there is an overwhelming amount of neuropsychological evidence to suggest that this is, in fact, not only possible, but relatively common.
Can a brain injury change who you are?

If damage to the brain can change our personality then what does this independent element actually do?

Damage to the brain can cause memory loss. So personality and memory seem tied to the physical brain. So if we remove the brain, what would consciousness be without our memories and our personality?

Damage to a calculators causes it to miscalculate. Does not mean that mathematical truths are dependent on the calculator.

 

[Nakosis]

Damage to a calculators causes it to miscalculate. Does not mean that mathematical truths are dependent on the calculator.

It means the calculator is no longer the same as it was before.
I don't expect to convince you otherwise especially since I used to use the same argument.

I suppose I kept questioning beliefs until there was nothing left to believe in. Now I just accept that what happens next is a mystery.

 

[sayak83]

It means the calculator is no longer the same as it was before.
I don't expect to convince you otherwise especially since I used to use the same argument.

I suppose I kept questioning beliefs until there was nothing left to believe in. Now I just accept that what happens next is a mystery.

The basic problem is there can never be a causal physical explanation for subjective nature of consciousness, as its not a property that can be observed from the outside. One would have never known that a phenomena like consciousness exists at all though any sort of observation whatsoever if we did not have this prior first person access to it.