Consciousness

[Sleeppy]

I don't think relaying information is the same thing as transmission. If you were to take two people in two separate rooms that are soundproof and windowless, transmission would be impossible.

Transmission usually, if not always, requires some medium of travel. If you're in a soundproof, windowless room with an internet connection and a computer, certain mediums are accessible.

Then there's people like Ramses Sanguino.

 

[Sleeppy]

It appears that this thread would be of better service in the jokes section.

So, when are you leaving to go pickup your Nobel Prize? It must be hectic with the phone ringing endlessly, the camera crews at the door, etc. How do you cope with it?

Feel free to repost and talk about it there.

 

[idav]

If you're reading this, I'm currently transferring consciousness to you. Your eyeballs are receiving physical stimuli. Your brain is retaining and managing what it is able, and your consciousness is affected as a result.

Thing here is your separating what your seeing as something separate from consiousness. No stimuli means nothing to be conscious of but to get a bit deeper, no physical existence means no object to see the data. Physical being comes before the mind. The stimuli coming from the tv is just as much physical as consiousness.

 

[Super Universe]

Except of course for the fact that this isn't how a television works. If a channel stops transmitting, the 'pictures and sounds' from that channel aren't already inside of the TV.

Exactly. You missed the sarcasm.

The point was that the brain and the television work kind of the same way, they both receive a signal but if you didn't know better you would think the television set had all of the pictures and sounds inside of it.

 

[Super Universe]

How does "understanding people" help justify your theory of reincarnation? Millions of folk go to college and travel abroad. What is different about how you did it?

You should really stop trying to figure me out. You are embarrassing yourself.

How does understanding people justify my beliefs? People want to feel good about themselves, they way they do it is to put down others. God doesn't feel that any person is better than any other person and God certainly does not punish people.

Hindu's came up with the idea of reincarnation, and it was correct, but they added in the idea that the poor were being punished, which was not correct. The priests and rich created the caste system entirely to feel better about themselves.

Millions of folks go to college and travel abroad? Are they doing it to figure people out or are they doing it for themselves? I wanted to figure people out. God made the universe and people are His most interesting creation, so, to me, figuring out people is also figuring out God.

Humans didn't make sense to me. Why would someone waste money and get themselves addicted to cigarettes or alcohol or drugs which would control their lives and lessen their lifespan by 15 years or more? Why become obese? Why spend money as fast as you get it? Why abuse your wife and children? Why commit crimes? I never understood these self destructive behaviors until I realized that many people are still animals who can't control their primitive impulses. You should look up the marshmallow test.

I should stop trying to figure you out? Already done. Time for the next person.

I'm embarrassing myself? What's embarrassing is thinking you're better than the untouchables when you're not.

 

[Sleeppy]

Thing here is your separating what your seeing as something separate from consiousness. No stimuli means nothing to be conscious of but to get a bit deeper, no physical existence means no object to see the data. Physical being comes before the mind. The stimuli coming from the tv is just as much physical as consiousness.

Not sure what you're saying here.

 

[idav]

Not sure what you're saying here.

The debate is asking is everything energy or everything physical, they are one and the same thing in different forms. We only see and hear an embarrassingly tiny bit of the spectrum.

 

[sayak83]

How does understanding people justify my beliefs? People want to feel good about themselves, they way they do it is to put down others. God doesn't feel that any person is better than any other person and God certainly does not punish people.

Hindu's came up with the idea of reincarnation, and it was correct, but they added in the idea that the poor were being punished, which was not correct. The priests and rich created the caste system entirely to feel better about themselves.

Millions of folks go to college and travel abroad? Are they doing it to figure people out or are they doing it for themselves? I wanted to figure people out. God made the universe and people are His most interesting creation, so, to me, figuring out people is also figuring out God.

Humans didn't make sense to me. Why would someone waste money and get themselves addicted to cigarettes or alcohol or drugs which would control their lives and lessen their lifespan by 15 years or more? Why become obese? Why spend money as fast as you get it? Why abuse your wife and children? Why commit crimes? I never understood these self destructive behaviors until I realized that many people are still animals who can't control their primitive impulses. You should look up the marshmallow test.

I should stop trying to figure you out? Already done. Time for the next person.

I'm embarrassing myself? What's embarrassing is thinking you're better than the untouchables when you're not.

None of this provides any justification for your specific theory of rebirth.
So it's a speculation, correct?

 

[Super Universe]

None of this provides any justification for your specific theory of rebirth.
So it's a speculation, correct?

Where is your evidence that poor Hindu's are being punished by God? You don't have any. So it's speculation based upon your human need to feel superior to others.

 

[sayak83]

Where is your evidence that poor Hindu's are being punished by God? You don't have any. So it's speculation based upon your human need to feel superior to others.

Poor Hindus are not being punished by God. Why would I believe such silly things?

Now, back to justification for your theory of rebirth...

 

[Super Universe]

Poor Hindu's are not punished by God? I'm sure you have a lot of untouchable friends then? Probably not, right?

Okay, you want justification. First you have to purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minitonka. Post a video of that and then you can proceed to the next step.

 

[Milton Platt]

Argument: Consciousness is not solely an effect of the brain.



When the brain is altered or damaged, a different consciousness results.

When the brain is considered to be inactive, or dead--- consciousness is either:

a) decaying/removed with the brain's cells (as evident with time, disease, damage, etc.),

b) it is being retained to some degree, through transferal (e.g. consciousness is being transferred with social interaction, even now),

c) or some combination.




Argument 2: Consciousness is simply a description of energy transferal.

Do you have testable, verifiable evidence for either argument??? Or are you asking for evidence for either of those arguments?

 

[QuestioningMind]

The purpose of stimuli is a reaction.

To say that consciousness is not being transferred, ignores that fact, and also ignores the source of said stimuli.

Not sure how you conclude that the 'purpose' of stimuli is a reaction. I certainly agree that often times the RESULT of stimuli is a reaction. But assigning stimuli a 'purpose' seems rather silly to me.

A breeze against my skin can be a stimulus that causes me to react by getting goosebumps. The stimulus caused by the breeze certainly didn't have the PURPOSE of causing me to react with goosebumps. The fact that I just happened to be a little chilly at the time caused the goosebumps result. My consciousness was affected by the breeze, but certainly no consciousness was TRANSFERRED... since the breeze possesses no consciousness TO transfer.

 

[Sleeppy]

Do you have testable, verifiable evidence for either argument??? Or are you asking for evidence for either of those arguments?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...ish-function-without-heart-brain.html?isamp=1

 

[Sleeppy]

Not sure how you conclude that the 'purpose' of stimuli is a reaction. I certainly agree that often times the RESULT of stimuli is a reaction. But assigning stimuli a 'purpose' seems rather silly to me.

A breeze against my skin can be a stimulus that causes me to react by getting goosebumps. The stimulus caused by the breeze certainly didn't have the PURPOSE of causing me to react with goosebumps. The fact that I just happened to be a little chilly at the time caused the goosebumps result. My consciousness was affected by the breeze, but certainly no consciousness was TRANSFERRED... since the breeze possesses no consciousness TO transfer.

Irrelevant. The definition of stimulus/stimuli is explicit.

Wind/air is comprised of certain elements, atoms, etc. Each individual component has a determined reaction to external stimuli. I argue that consciousness, or self-awareness, is fundamental to energy.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Irrelevant. The definition of stimulus/stimuli is explicit.

Wind/air is comprised of certain elements, atoms, etc. Each individual component has a determined reaction to external stimuli. I argue that consciousness, or self-awareness, is fundamental to energy.

What a ridiculous argument. Consciousness my be the result of energy (neurons firing within a brain), but to then claim that energy itself is fundamentally self-aware is ludicrous. Please DO demonstrate how a 'breeze' possseses conscious self-awareness that can be 'transferred' to an individual.

 

[Sleeppy]

What a ridiculous argument. Consciousness my be the result of energy (neurons firing within a brain), but to then claim that energy itself is fundamentally self-aware is ludicrous. Please DO demonstrate how a 'breeze' possseses conscious self-awareness that can be 'transferred' to an individual.

Human consciousness is not the brain alone; it is the human body. Your body localizes much of the consciousness it has and receives, in the brain.

 

[Milton Platt]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/jellyfish-function-without-heart-brain.html?isamp=1

Oh, I thought we were discussing higher life forms that have a centralized nervous system.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What we call "consciousness" is a complex form of interaction. Everything that exists and is composed of matter or energy is interactive on a fundamental level...all the way from rocks, trees, animals to humans and even entire galaxies...all interactive. The more complex and interactive something is, the more lifelike it appears and the natural extension to that is what we call consciousness...the most highly complex and highly interactive state of all. So there you have it, that's all it is...a highly interactive state thanks to the complexity of our brains. If you alter the brain or damage it, that interactive ability (consciousness) is also altered. So is everything conscious? No, but everything is interactive and that is the basis of all consciousness.