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Featured Consciousness and Brains

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    can consciousness exist without a brain?


     
  2. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Not human consciousness
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    not cetacean consciousness, or cephalopod either
     
  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Yes. There are many life forms that do not have a brain, but that can perceive natural phenomena and react to it. Plants orient their leaves to face the sun as it crosses the sky, for example.
     
  5. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    That's not exactly consciousness
     
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  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It's the result of reactive matter. It can be simple or complex. Consciousness is just the result of that.
     
  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Have Read many posts that didnt appear to require a brain.
     
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  8. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    You have won the internet today.
     
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  9. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Well, I really, really liked the video -- especially the apparent "communication" between the fly trap and the mimosa. Beautiful and fascinating.

    Offering just my own opinion (and I'm no neuroscientist, so you need pay no attention to me) I still do not see that as examples of "consciousness." I am convinced that a very great deal that happens inside our brains (and the neurological equivalents in many animals) is primarily reactive, or response to stimuli. The more complex, the more likely that some of that stimuli comes from within the organism, or even within the neurological complex itself. Consciousness, on the other hand, seems to me to require a feedback loop, wherein the organism not only responds, but "tells itself" it responded. As most of us who've played with amplifiers know, feedback can be very powerful (SCREEECHH!), but properly controlled, wonderfully useful.

    Just trying to imagine the complexity of it all absolutely boggles my tiny pea brain.
     
  10. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    he relates plant consciousness to electrical impulses. electricity is a fundamental component of the known material universe. electricity is necessary, a brain isn't.
     
  11. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Consciousness is prerequisite for the Universe.
     
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  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I am going with a hard 'Yes' based on my spiritual philosophy of Advaita that says that Consciousness is fundamental and eternal. Consciousness can incarnate a physical brain but the physical brain can not create consciousness.

    Also. various types of paranormal phenomena supports consciousness and intelligence without a physical mechanism.
     
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  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    electro-magnetic fields are physical


    What is Electricity: definitions


    AUM~Sparky's Cayce Readings on "Vibrations"


     
    #13 Fool, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  14. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Yes, that is consistent with what I was getting at. 'Unseen' just means it's not in the range of our physical eyes' receptivity.

    Consciousness is neither physical nor measurable.
     
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  15. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    then consciousness, nirguna can't exist? can't be?


    god is not one? not yoked? not yoga?
     
  16. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    not sure I 'get' your question, sorry.

    Are you thinking Consciousness/God/Brahman must be physical and measurable to exist???
     
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    What does it mean, exactly, to be conscious? A computer can be equipped with sensors in order to react to stimuli such as light, sound, touch, temperature, etc. Does that make it conscious? A virus can react to and with it's environment. Is it conscious? Just asking......
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    a computer is created by humans to mimick some process. it's artificial. plants and viruses aren't considered artificial intelligence
     
  20. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    That does not really answer the question. What is consciousness? If it is the ability to sense and react to one's surroundings, then the computer is conscious. (I am not really believing it is....just trying to get you to state exactly what you think consciousness is). Nobody, including those who are actually qualified in the study of it, can really peg it. It is ill defined.
    It could be said that a computer does not mimic the process, it actually duplicates the process, at least on the input-output level. I mean, a computer can be more aware of it's surroundings than a plant, or a bacteria......so where does that leave us?
     
    #20 Milton Platt, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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