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Featured Conscious Reality

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    Is consciousness a reality unto itself?

    as an example dream time.
     
  2. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Being conscious is reality. "Consciousness" isn't a thing unto itself that we can point at and say, "That's a reality unto itself."
     
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  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Dreams are produced in the brain and so exist as brain states and are part of reality.

    That doesn't mean the experiences in dreams are non-fiction.
     
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  4. Nakosis

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    There is IMO a self conscious reality. I think most see this as a "world view". A conceptualize reality of one's self identity, how reality works/should work and your place/purpose in it.

    Dream time is just a raw narrative created by your subconscious mind. The conceptualize reality of the self is usually not present at these time. Though occasionally some folks have lucid dreams where their identity remains intact.

    This concept of self is all imagined. Things that occur in actual reality we see as happening to this conceptualize self.

    Once you realize the self is a concept you can become more creative with it. The self and the world it lives in is kind of a virtual reality. You can place yourself in the past or future. A lot of people do this anyway their just not doing it willfully. Daydreaming, tapping into a subconscious narrative they aren't actually in control of.

    I think is is possible to take control of this narrative. Within this virtual reality of the mind, you can create any self, any reality that you want.

    What's really cool are those people who can create something in this virtual reality and cause it to exist in the actual reality. Inventors, scientists, engineers.
     
  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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  6. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Cant be... we are it we can't say that is it. A bit like pointing to the brain and saying "higher functioning region" that is not and cannot be true and is purely an old church statement and nothing more.
     
  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    So there is you and then all void around you. Just based on the tiny bit we know about evolution no void thus false.

    "I am the dream I am alive"

    I didnt make that statement I am life I understand I am of that!, not a part of that, nor apart from that.

    The, statementnt part of that is like talking about a clock. Is nature a clock? Is it part void part void part void? I am an extremely sensitive to interconnectedness symbiosis metamorphosis. These are aspects or characteristics of nature not simple functions here band then not here and over there willy nilly we pick and choose how that is.
     
    #7 David T, Jan 12, 2018
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  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Which tiny bit is that?
     
  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    What experience doesn't exist neurologicalally? In order for the statement to have validity other than simply being obvious and self evident it has to have some idea that there is that there such a reality magically independent from neurology. So the statement is not objective it's neurology pointing at neurology claiming experience only exists in neurology. That's clearly false with a simple walk in nature

    Only the abstractive part of the brain can create the illusion of separation from the brain. It's dysfunctional it calls itself regionally "higher functioning." zero evidence of it literally being a higher functioning region all kinds of evidence it's totally high on itself. It new its the youngest aspect of evolution on the planet its the most primative aspect of evolution. It's a pine needle pretending it manifested the tree in disconnection from the tree. Hell it's a dead pine needle laying on the ground pretending for that matter decomposing. Alive and catatonic at the same time.
     
  10. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    We have never measured void. It can't be measured. It was argued and still is in Christianity the trinity. Three separate? I say three part singular.
    I am the dream,
    I am.
    ALIVE!

    Three individuals are they separate or is it a singular statement. Each stands on its own but all three make up a single statement as well. Christianity has been dealing with local, non local for 2,000 years. With not much clarity I might add.
    What is life? What is ALIVE? only one region of the cranium is confused its the self labeled "higher functioning" region. Its dysfunction in based on its self identity "higher functioning, name itself. Its primative its the youngest aspect of evoution on the entire planet and its pretending its the profound of evolution or of God. Nonsense and not even scientific or anything but fantasy. It does not know its place. It strangles the rest of the brain it's acting as a bottleneck. Like an air filter on a car engine gone horribly bad. Or a potted plant.
     
    #10 David T, Jan 12, 2018
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  11. Nakosis

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    Not sure how we ended up discussing the trinity or void but otherwise it's an interesting view of "self consciousness".

    For a while I saw the subconscious self as the enemy. Pretty much how you've describe this higher functioning region.

    I've come to see neither as the enemy. Just different aspects of the mind. Part of the mind is self conscious, which is analytical, rational in that it evaluates status of the rest of the body/mind. It tries to evaluate itself as well. Its own conscious existence but it can't. It can't really observe itself so it creates a faux identity.

    I suspect you realize this already cause it certainly can seem to be just as you describe. Some beliefs, like Buddhism teach you to let go of the illusion of self. To just be, exist as the observer.

    To exist in the world however, we have to maintain some type of identity. However we don't have to be controlled by it.

    Some even see the story of Adam and Eve as the narrative of how man became self conscious. Our defiance of God in deciding our own fate. The freedom to choose to act against what God created.

    In deciding for ourselves, we take all the risk, suffer all of the consequences of the choices we make.

    I prefer the risk of making my own choices even though it's not always the most comfortable position to be in.
     
  12. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    Belonging to an eastern Buddhist school, I do think Buddha-nature/consciousness is a reality unto itself. In a certain manner of speaking...
     
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  13. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Exactly. The region of the brain that self labels itself "higher functioning" is deeply effected enviromentally and that's historically. It's the frozen cold rock to the fire in the volcano. It believes it is separate from the fire. That's freud in context to the unconscious. Aware of it, but it believes also it's dead and determined by it.

    Buddhism and Christianity taoism are all interconnected more deeply. A bit like yo are in northern India I am in the United States and in someone else is in China we all three might describe the fire separately but it's still a single fire just as we share a single sky we share a single fire in the earth at its center. That is always with us our feet are always on the ground no matter how deeply we abstract into what we call outer space. I never lose sight and separate from being grounded ever.

    The intellect isn't the enemy its dysfunctioning and that is passed generation to generation and continously reinforced and thus it becomes more dysfunctional over time. We can see it in Christianity. We have fire like a moment in time come to the surface and over time it freezes and "I believe" then sets in cold rock. The nicene creed is a statement of that symptom. It starts "I believe" the "higher functioning" part of neurology has taken over and now the bible is dissected into a bunch of cut and paste verses and repeated ceremonially. The creed makes zero sense because it's a symptom which the Christian story was attacking originally. I might say rock does not determine fire fire determines rock, or more exactly book does not determine nature book does not determine jesus book does not determine buddha, book does not determine Lao tzu. Nature determines book, fire determines rock. Or in this case nature not house, nature home we build house in home, house not home, get home.

    I wrote that as a pre literate aboriginal native american. I writ that into culture lost in the building like a post card as a stand outside culture. More like sailing paper airplanes through the door. I always am in the wild-erness. Outside, looking at a box called the higher functioning aspect of neurology
    Contructing fantasy.
    Mybe music? Story? Art in its variety of forms is the only way I know of to set the box on fire that I know of. Old neill young song. Don't let it bring you down wonderful song it's only castles burning.....being an arsonist is tricky!!!!! Have to trust fire it lead!!!! We little fire to big fire.
     
    #13 David T, Jan 12, 2018
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  14. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Not separate the only reality of separation exists in the cranium at the self labeled region of the brain that has labeled itself higher functioning. Zero evidence of it actually literally being some "magical higher functioning" aspect. That region is always attacked at the deepest Wells of all metaphysics founders regardless. Over time all metaphysic traditions get over run frozen rock to the fire of the founders. Buddhism is not magically exempt no metaphysics ever is regardless. Buddha came as fire today lots of Rock talk about buddha not buddha. It to can fall into self labeling buddhism is and really it's just the faux, dysfunctional "higher functioning" part of brain. I love buddhism don't get me wrong btw it does have a bit more clarity but it must all align to fire in all metaphysics or we just have rock talking about outerspace. Confused to say the least. . Big fire coming as mushroom.

    I will let you figure that metaphor out yourself. Sometimes telling people has exactly the opposite effect of what is intended that's also a fact. Buddhists practice koans for that exact purpose.

    Amanita_muscaria_(fly_agaric).JPG
     
    #14 David T, Jan 12, 2018
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  15. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    I did say in a 'certain manner of speaking' because it is in fact not separate, but even talking about it would be to make divisions. In Buddhism, we think talking about Ultimate Reality at all is shaky ground. In the world of illusion, bound in the senses, it is utterly a mystery. However, it is something. The Heart Sutra says only that all dharmas are forms of emptiness- so not created, not destroyed, not stained, and not pure. My post was short and perhaps a little non-descriptive, because we have to be careful.
     
  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    interesting choice of images

    amanita muscaria
     
    #16 Fool, Jan 12, 2018
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  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    So the question is whether the experiences are *solely* neurologic or whether they correspond to something that isn't just inside of our heads. Walking in nature means we interact with something other than ourselves. Dreams aren't like that.
     
  18. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    That's essentially what I said.
     
  19. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Indeed!!! They grow around here abundantly!! Only one death can be attributed to them when a man ate 30 of them. I like the redness of this one very fire ish. I was at a state park in a class a state park official talked about mushrooms mentioned ones that are a very serious felony to pick called locally azzys. They are some of the most potent in the world. I asked is it illegal to pick deadly mushrooms he said no. I said " so you are saying, mushrooms that can kill us dead are totally legal to pick but the ones that might alter our perceptions are illegal?" he paused started to laugh and said "yes".. I said "that makes total sense" about 30 people were laughing with most of us curious about azzys.

    All my writings flip around the nonsense pretty quickly even if people don't understand it.
     
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  20. Nakosis

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    I'm kind of at a lost trying to define this virtual space of the imagination. I'm not saying it is separate from the brain but it is also not reality.

    The brain uses the same part to create what we imagine so we can experience actual images, sounds, touch, tastes as it uses for our experiences of actual reality.

    Usually people know the difference but not always. At times the brain can fool itself into believing that what it imagined was a real experience.
     
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