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confusing order of three negative veils of existence beyond tree of life

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Darin, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Darin

    Darin New Member

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    Within the mystical system of the Qabalah, the three Veils of Negative Existence are called:
    • Ain: Nothing. - 0 (or 000)
    • Ain Soph: Infinite. - 00
    • Ain Soph Aur: Limitless Light. - 000(or 0)
    In most of books, if we look at charts of the Tree of Life, we notice that some of the charts show the veils in one order, with Ain Soph Aur closest to Kether (eg: Lon Milo DuQuette's Angels, Demons & Gods of the New Millenium and other books ) so Ain is the outermost veil. But Crowley and some source's diagrams have Ain Soph Aur as the outermost veil. 000>00>0 is undoubtable so it's really ridiculous when a lot of sources I have found assign Ain to 0, Ain Soph to 00, Ain Soph Aur to 000 but still declare Ain is the Supreme GOD :astonished::astonished::astonished:.
    Within my philosophy, Ain Soph Aur is far more favorable than Ain to be the real boss.
    Let's argue.
    order with Ain soph aur as the highest:

    tree of life 1
    TOLfor Palace Of Four Gates
    Tree0

     
    #1 Darin, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  2. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how this system is helpful in developing an understanding of God.
     
  3. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    When done properly it can be. It's not something for amateurs on the internet.
     
  4. Tumah

    Tumah Well-Known Member

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    Although the linked article seems to be suggesting that Thelemic Qaballah is pretty much the same as Jewish Kaballah, they're wrong. There are some key terms (and sometimes grammatically incorrect phrases, see: ain sof aur) that they've applied to superficially similar ideas, but for the Jewish scholar the difference is like night and day.
     
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  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    I am not familiar with any of this or might comment further. Something may interest you though: In the third link I do not think that the argument about 0/0 and i is Mathematically strong, so that number should be considered unknown and not assigned a value. Also, the complex numbers function like a 2nd dimension with a rotation operation. Graph a complex plain similar to a Cartesian coordinate system. The real parts are left and right and the imaginary parts are up and down. If you consider any point on the complex plain and multiply its number by i, it rotates 90 degrees in the plane. If you multiply it by .5i then it rotates 45 degrees and so on. For example the number 1 + i multiplied by 0.5i is .5 + .5i and is located at distance .7 from the coordinate axis at 45 degrees from zero (or .5 right and .5 up). Similarly there is a 3d version of the complex plain, and there are systems for representing it as well as higher dimensional systems. I am not sure if it is useful for what you are doing but might be if you are looking at i.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    What is this stuff for, anyway?
     
  7. Tumah

    Tumah Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what those guys are trying to do, but in Judaism kabbalah is the study of how the world was created and the process by which it continues to exist.
     
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  8. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    I might be mistaken since I've never studied it myself, but I've read that non-Jewish kabbalists use it like a guide to their psyche to try to achieve union with God, or try to travel the paths to achieve some states pursued by yogis. I suppose calling it a mix would be an understatement...
     
  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    So its the study of how the world was created according to very humble and dedicated men. That is what I am hearing. Otherwise why would you even care about it? Obviously its very cryptic, so its fun for just anybody to pick it up and ponder the symbols and such. I am fond of figuring out the messages on license plates; so I get that. In addition people like anything cryptic that seems suggestive of supernatural things. People like 'Omega codes' and 'Alchemy' and such.
     
  10. Darin

    Darin New Member

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    The theory offers something similar to Big Bang theory and relationship between Chaos and order.
    Then whatever Ain soph aur can be, it strongly relates to Lucifer - The shining one, even some scholars assign it to Ra, Atum. I have read "The shining one" and " The serpent grail " of Gary Osborn and Philip Gardiner so convinced and fascinated by those books.
     
  11. Tumah

    Tumah Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure what they're doing. I've heard phrases such as "working with the klipoth" but I have no idea what that could possibly mean as the word klipah (pl. klipoth) means "peal" as in the peal of a fruit - the part you discard. Hassidism uses lessons from kabbalistic literature as a means of self-improvement, but it's meant to be in a relatively down to earth sort of way. I'm not really sure what everyone else is doing.

    I'm not really sure what you're asking. We don't care about it because it was written by humble dedicated men. It's a part of our Oral Torah, is relevant to pretty much every area of Judaism and after a certain degree of erudition in these subjects, has practical application as well.

    These works are only cryptic for the uninitiated. In Jewish circles, these works are taught by those who are already knowledgeable of them - usually because they are students, student of students, etc. of the authors. Also, there are a number of works of commentaries that explain earlier work or provide foundational knowledge to understand them in Rabbinical Hebrew like any other Jewish text.
     
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