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Conflict in the Middle East

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by canadianhorsefan, May 15, 2004.

  1. canadianhorsefan

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    Does anyone else care that Israelis are murdering countless Palestinians and calling the Palestinians's terrorists?! Does anyone care that the Israelis stole Lebanese land (the Sheba'a Farms) and are still claiming it as a part of Israel??

    canadianhorsefan
     
  2. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    CanadienHorseFan:

    Do I care? Yes. Is there something realistic I can do about it? Not directly, other than to specifically include that region of the world and all its inhabitants in y prayers for peace. I can look around, make my personal judgement regarding which of the candidates and parties in the next election would be most likely to follow a policy that make sense to me, and then vote that way. I can support these ideas, verbally and in writing, but I don't believe that is going to have much effect on those disposed to using violence on eithe side in this conflict. Moral outrage is fine; but my staying morally outraged for the last couple of decades hasn't had any real impact, and I have generally tried to direct this energy into more productive channels.

    I also care about all of the Israelis killed by Palestinian rockets, guns, and bombs. I even care about the suicide bombers themselves.

    Do you have some concrete suggestions about what individuals can do which would have significant impact on this conflict? I reflect on the fact that this has been going on in this region of the world for a couple thousand years or so now........ This is not intended as pessimistic; however without a significant change in the inhabitants in the region, on BOTH sides, I don't see a resolution to this conflict anytime soon. Both sides, and most of the participants on both sides, and all of their supporters, are too attached to the notion of revenge and retribution to make peace with each other at this time. When enough of them are sick of it and really want peace, peace will happen.
     
  3. Mr Spinkles

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    I do care, I think Israeli tactics are wrong....and I also care about Israel's right to exist, and the fact that blowing yourself up on a bus full of innocent civilians is wrong and derails the entire peace process...
     
  4. LilChrist

    LilChrist Member

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    There's a good reason for Isreal calling Palestinians terrorists. Most of them are. If you look at the Palestinian culture, the children are brought up to hate and murder Jews. I recently listened to some Palestinians bragging arrogantly about how they can walk into a Isreali market FULL OF CIVILIANS, and become human bombs. Isreal is and has a right to be tired of it. If Isreal went for peaceful tactics, Palestine would grab the opportunity and hop in terrorism with even more force. Think about 9/11. Thry have that happen to them every year, just with smaller buildings and less people at a time. All in all, Palestine has killed more Isrealis than the 9/11 did. Before you call the Isrealis terrorists, think about this: Isreal has been retaliating. Now they're tired of it.
     
  5. canadianhorsefan

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    Okay, maybe that's a good reason. Just tell me: Is it a good reason for Israel to stay in Lebanese territory? Nope, don't think so. Well, they are. Plus, they left us a few......memories. Like mines all over the place. And bomb holes in the buildings. Oh, and not to forget, an Israeli sniper killed my father's cousin's brother. Oh yeah, he was 16 years old. Oh no, it's okay to kill innocent civilians. Yes, sure is. You know what? There was a small video they used to play throughout the Middle East on TV. Yeah, a guy and his son, hiding behing a dumpster, away from the Israelis. Then BOOM!, the screen fills with smoke, and went it clears you see a dead boy and his father seriously injured. :eek:mg:

    Well, I think the Israelis are allowed to do this. Yeah. And they did take more land than was alloted to them when Israel was created. And they just want Lebanese water. Yes. Steal our rivers. Sure. We'll just hand them over to you.

    Sorry if I'm sarcastic, I don't know why. And it's the same at another forum. I guess I have a lot on my mind. Concerning what to do with students using cocaine and pot and I don't know what.


    canadianhorsefan
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

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    Canadianhorsefan--

    Killing innocent civilians is always wrong, no matter who is behind it--Israelis, Palestinians--anyone.

    However, there are reasons Israel doesn't want to pull out of Lebanon--remember the three seperate occasions when the Arab states launched a surprise attack on Israel? Israel doesn't want to give up this land because it helps to act as a buffer in case of any future surprise attacks. Israel has given back land that it won in battle before...only to find itself attacked again.

    Israel would have motivation to pull out if the Arab states would acknowledge its existence once and for all and guarantee that they won't attack Israel again.
     
  7. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    As far as I'm concerned all sides in this conflict are wrong... innocent people are killed because of the vile actions of the politicians... wether by tank/helicopter or by convincing kids to put on bombs...

    violence begets violence...

    wa:-do
     
  8. canadianhorsefan

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    Well, maybe they'd acknowledge its existence if Israel gave back Palestinian land and stopped being such a pain in the.....you know what. ;-)

    Kids to put on bombs? The kids decide whether to fight for freedom or not. Islam is suppressed in that region, so they have a right to retaliate.

    canadianhorsefan
     
  9. Mr Spinkles

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    And what guarantee does Israel have that once it gives back Palestinian/Lebanese land it will not be attacked once again, like it has been so many times before?

    Both parties show a lack of a willingness to find a peaceful solution...and therefore a violent cycle is what they will have until they are willing to make concessions to each other.

    No one has the right to retaliate against innocent women and children, I think it's wrong and I beleive (from my understanding) it is against Islam to kill innocent women and children as well.
     
  10. canadianhorsefan

    Joined:
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    Does anyone else care that Israelis are murdering countless Palestinians and calling the Palestinians's terrorists?! Does anyone care that the Israelis stole Lebanese land (the Sheba'a Farms) and are still claiming it as a part of Israel??

    canadianhorsefan
     
  11. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,386
    Ratings:
    +825
    CanadienHorseFan:

    Do I care? Yes. Is there something realistic I can do about it? Not directly, other than to specifically include that region of the world and all its inhabitants in y prayers for peace. I can look around, make my personal judgement regarding which of the candidates and parties in the next election would be most likely to follow a policy that make sense to me, and then vote that way. I can support these ideas, verbally and in writing, but I don't believe that is going to have much effect on those disposed to using violence on eithe side in this conflict. Moral outrage is fine; but my staying morally outraged for the last couple of decades hasn't had any real impact, and I have generally tried to direct this energy into more productive channels.

    I also care about all of the Israelis killed by Palestinian rockets, guns, and bombs. I even care about the suicide bombers themselves.

    Do you have some concrete suggestions about what individuals can do which would have significant impact on this conflict? I reflect on the fact that this has been going on in this region of the world for a couple thousand years or so now........ This is not intended as pessimistic; however without a significant change in the inhabitants in the region, on BOTH sides, I don't see a resolution to this conflict anytime soon. Both sides, and most of the participants on both sides, and all of their supporters, are too attached to the notion of revenge and retribution to make peace with each other at this time. When enough of them are sick of it and really want peace, peace will happen.
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
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    I do care, I think Israeli tactics are wrong....and I also care about Israel's right to exist, and the fact that blowing yourself up on a bus full of innocent civilians is wrong and derails the entire peace process...
     
  13. LilChrist

    LilChrist Member

    Joined:
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    There's a good reason for Isreal calling Palestinians terrorists. Most of them are. If you look at the Palestinian culture, the children are brought up to hate and murder Jews. I recently listened to some Palestinians bragging arrogantly about how they can walk into a Isreali market FULL OF CIVILIANS, and become human bombs. Isreal is and has a right to be tired of it. If Isreal went for peaceful tactics, Palestine would grab the opportunity and hop in terrorism with even more force. Think about 9/11. Thry have that happen to them every year, just with smaller buildings and less people at a time. All in all, Palestine has killed more Isrealis than the 9/11 did. Before you call the Isrealis terrorists, think about this: Isreal has been retaliating. Now they're tired of it.
     
  14. canadianhorsefan

    Joined:
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    Okay, maybe that's a good reason. Just tell me: Is it a good reason for Israel to stay in Lebanese territory? Nope, don't think so. Well, they are. Plus, they left us a few......memories. Like mines all over the place. And bomb holes in the buildings. Oh, and not to forget, an Israeli sniper killed my father's cousin's brother. Oh yeah, he was 16 years old. Oh no, it's okay to kill innocent civilians. Yes, sure is. You know what? There was a small video they used to play throughout the Middle East on TV. Yeah, a guy and his son, hiding behing a dumpster, away from the Israelis. Then BOOM!, the screen fills with smoke, and went it clears you see a dead boy and his father seriously injured. :eek:mg:

    Well, I think the Israelis are allowed to do this. Yeah. And they did take more land than was alloted to them when Israel was created. And they just want Lebanese water. Yes. Steal our rivers. Sure. We'll just hand them over to you.

    Sorry if I'm sarcastic, I don't know why. And it's the same at another forum. I guess I have a lot on my mind. Concerning what to do with students using cocaine and pot and I don't know what.


    canadianhorsefan
     
  15. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
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    +1,676
    Canadianhorsefan--

    Killing innocent civilians is always wrong, no matter who is behind it--Israelis, Palestinians--anyone.

    However, there are reasons Israel doesn't want to pull out of Lebanon--remember the three seperate occasions when the Arab states launched a surprise attack on Israel? Israel doesn't want to give up this land because it helps to act as a buffer in case of any future surprise attacks. Israel has given back land that it won in battle before...only to find itself attacked again.

    Israel would have motivation to pull out if the Arab states would acknowledge its existence once and for all and guarantee that they won't attack Israel again.
     
  16. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

    Joined:
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    15,370
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    As far as I'm concerned all sides in this conflict are wrong... innocent people are killed because of the vile actions of the politicians... wether by tank/helicopter or by convincing kids to put on bombs...

    violence begets violence...

    wa:-do
     
  17. canadianhorsefan

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    22
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well, maybe they'd acknowledge its existence if Israel gave back Palestinian land and stopped being such a pain in the.....you know what. ;-)

    Kids to put on bombs? The kids decide whether to fight for freedom or not. Islam is suppressed in that region, so they have a right to retaliate.

    canadianhorsefan
     
  18. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,985
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    And what guarantee does Israel have that once it gives back Palestinian/Lebanese land it will not be attacked once again, like it has been so many times before?

    Both parties show a lack of a willingness to find a peaceful solution...and therefore a violent cycle is what they will have until they are willing to make concessions to each other.

    No one has the right to retaliate against innocent women and children, I think it's wrong and I beleive (from my understanding) it is against Islam to kill innocent women and children as well.
     
  19. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    In 1947, India was returned to its people. Large parts of Palestine were stolen by the UN, headed by the US and Britain, under war cries like "A land without people to a people without a land", and fenced to a new nation. That was the basic error. Reversing that decision would be almost as hard as returning, for example, the Americas or Australia to their original inhabitants, but if Israel at least withdrew from occupied territories to the borders decided in 1947, I hope that many problems would be reduced. According to all international conventions, the Israeli government are war criminals in the way they exploit occupied territory. Fortunately, there seems to be an increasing amount of protest among Israelis, even from enlisted persons. Those of you who believe in prayers should use them for the benefit of all the people in the area, and we others will hope for a peaceful future.
     
  20. student_of_god

    student_of_god New Member

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    maybe you should read history and you will understand that the root of all evil which started the conflicts you mention, plus the ones between India and Pakitstarn (sorry for spelling) where the result of the British either during the world war and in their ways of collonising countries. Why not draw a line, break the country into 2 smaller coutries and those who are muslim on one side, those are other on the other..... Short term fix, long term conflict.

    Islam is nothing to defend. I am or was muslim and even I am disgusted in the way they act in most parts of the world. When you read "Student_of_god" forum, you can understand why Islam is hated by many. Even though many of my fellow muslims would disagree, this article is based on facts which can be found in our holy book.

    Islam only makes itself known by belittling everyone elses religions. It is not just a religion, it is a law, it is the culture. It is a religion to which I feel ashamed of being apart of, but I was born into it and all my life until I was able to get away was brainwashed by it from family, schools, etc..... I am a lucky one, but many of my friends are boarder line fundermentalists which latter take their religion too seriously and get mislead by our religious leaders based on their perception of the holy book and their translation pased onto us (which has personal feelings etc inbuilt).

    :fight:
     
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