So, I understand that the next World War will be over religion rather than politics.In a Fireside last Friday night, we had a speaker who said that Christianity and Islam were on a collision course and that those who hold the Baha'i Faith may not be as free as they are now to practice and teach it.This was written, I believe, by Shoghi Effendi in "Advent of Divine Justice".So, with the breakdown of religious institutions and the corruption found in the people who are supposed to lead them, how will the followers fare?Isn't the disenchantment with organized religion a herald of things to come?Can our society be reborn, or will it have to be destroyed?How can we as Baha'is help the transition of society into a more spiritual and less materialistic one? Thoughts?
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Conflict Between Christianity and Islam
- Thread starter Ninerays
- Start date
Ninerays said:
Society can and will be reborn, my friend, it does so in cycles. Think of civilisations as living organisms if you like: after all, we give them life. They die and rebirth as any other vibrant living thing must.
Baha'is should keep their heads down, lie low and let the Christians and Muslims kill each other.
Joking, of course. I do not believe WW3 will be an Abrahmic war @ all: it will a guerilla war over the majority dominant interpretation of Reality and Life themselves, fought on many different levels and senses, not least armed struggle pitting freedom-fighter/terrorist against all Authority. We may be getting a teaser of this kind of conflict in the War on Terror post 9/11.
Laila
Active Member
As a Muslim I don't have a problem with loving anyone practicing a faith different to mine and I'm sure many Muslims feel the same.
So, who is/what is causing the conflict between Christianity and Islam? If there was a so called conflict how does this affect the Baha'i faith? Is the Baha'i faith a philosophy practiced alongside religion? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I know very little about it.
My understanding is God willed the order of the world as it is, God decided the diversity of colours and religions; it is the expression of his right. It is a richness but also a trial. In fact it is a challenge. There is no need for tolerance of the other just simple acceptance.
So, who is/what is causing the conflict between Christianity and Islam? If there was a so called conflict how does this affect the Baha'i faith? Is the Baha'i faith a philosophy practiced alongside religion? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I know very little about it.
My understanding is God willed the order of the world as it is, God decided the diversity of colours and religions; it is the expression of his right. It is a richness but also a trial. In fact it is a challenge. There is no need for tolerance of the other just simple acceptance.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
the world power positions are changing too much to decide who will fight who next.
the rise of china and India. and the reducing oil supplies expected from the middle east.
will set up a new ball game.
This will be ultimately more important than religionin the decision
the rise of china and India. and the reducing oil supplies expected from the middle east.
will set up a new ball game.
This will be ultimately more important than religionin the decision
arthra
Baha'i
Actually I wanted to return a bit to the original post as I think it related to more of a question posed to Baha'is...
Let me say that Baha'i "firesides" are often run by average people who somethimes spin off in variuous directions and the purpose of them is to teach about the Baha'i Faith...
How this idea of a large scale war came up in the near future I have no idea but the book referred to by Shoghi Effendi called the Advent of Divine Justice was written in 1939 before the involvement of the United States in the Second World War so a good part of it related to events as they were shaping the world at the time and not to events so much today...The Baha'i Faith was itself outlawed in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and with the clouds of war forming in 1939 there were some pretty grim times being considered.
Unless there's some specific quote that Ninerays has in mind or heard quoted I think it should be said that there is no prophecy about a war between Islam and Christianity.
Actually our view of the future is more optimistic and envisions that we are entering a period of nations building the foundations for a world government that was proposed by Baha'u'llah in 1868-1870 to the many of the rulers of the time like the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, the Shah of Persia, the Kaiser, Emperor Napoleon III, the czar of Russia and the Queen of England - British Empire.
Baha'is find themselves though many times trying to improve the relationships of Christains and Muslims where we live through INter-faith activities and educational forums such as this one.
- Art
Let me say that Baha'i "firesides" are often run by average people who somethimes spin off in variuous directions and the purpose of them is to teach about the Baha'i Faith...
How this idea of a large scale war came up in the near future I have no idea but the book referred to by Shoghi Effendi called the Advent of Divine Justice was written in 1939 before the involvement of the United States in the Second World War so a good part of it related to events as they were shaping the world at the time and not to events so much today...The Baha'i Faith was itself outlawed in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and with the clouds of war forming in 1939 there were some pretty grim times being considered.
Unless there's some specific quote that Ninerays has in mind or heard quoted I think it should be said that there is no prophecy about a war between Islam and Christianity.
Actually our view of the future is more optimistic and envisions that we are entering a period of nations building the foundations for a world government that was proposed by Baha'u'llah in 1868-1870 to the many of the rulers of the time like the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, the Shah of Persia, the Kaiser, Emperor Napoleon III, the czar of Russia and the Queen of England - British Empire.
Baha'is find themselves though many times trying to improve the relationships of Christains and Muslims where we live through INter-faith activities and educational forums such as this one.
- Art
Okay, (sorry I was gone for so long..limited net access)I was alluding to the fireside conversation held a couple of weeks ago.I think I'd best set up my own position first and then go on to explain some of the main ideas that were discussed.Okay.The two key words that I find often repeated by Baha'is is "Peace and Unity".I am firmly convinced that our destiny as human beings is to unite under a common human family under the fatherhood of God.The message that I got from my time as a Baha'i is that of the Three Onenesses:Oneness of God, Oneness of humanity and Oneness of Religion.That means that essentially we are called to love and respect each other while giving God His due.In whatever religious situation we find ourselves(I've found myself in quite a few),Obedience to God and service to one's fellow person are two constant messages.Okay.Now, I'll just briefly touch on the conversation that was held a few weeks ago.First of all, I haven't had the chance to read myself from the Advent of Divine Justice, but I've heard passages quoted(I'm really going to have to buy that book.It sounds awesome)that allude to institutional corruption.Of course, there are differences between somebody's interpretation of a text and the actual text itself, but many of the passages quoted did speak of a process of human education, a painful process that would involve bloodshed.Okay, the next WW thing was an understanding,a thought that when the next war comes, it would have religious overtones.Then the speaker went on to speak of two of the most powerful religious institutions today and the global secularism we see today.A global war now or next week?I didn't really get that out of it.There is tension in the world today, as there has always been.Are there religious overtones in war?Absolutely.I say this because nations do play on the emotions of their citizens when somebody wants extra territory or this person has a resource(oil's an obvious example) that that person covets.I definitely incline my agreement with Arthra that we should work with people to acheive mutual understanding.A friend(well, a Friend and a personal friend of mine who helped guide me to the Baha'i Faith)told me extra things about this being a long process and I'm sorry, but we as humans seem to require learning lessons the hard way.Should we hole ourselves up?I thought Baha'u'llah summoned the cloistered to come out of their cloisters.My deep apologies for any misunderstandings that might have arisen from my original post.We as individuals should work together to achieve mutual understanding and hopefully we as a species will learn from the lessons we are taught.
Allah-u-Abha
Allah-u-Abha
shema
Active Member
Well from my religious stand point I believe that there will be religious wars, and quite a few people will lose their faiths and change their minds. There are a lot of False Prophets who lead people astray. We were all born humans and with that said. There is a carnal nature that is instilled in our DNA, and our environments. It's easy to say that nobody's perfect. But it's hard to say that not only are we not perfect, but we were all born bound with the ability and most likeliness to a specific stronghold. Most religions believe that their way, is the way to rid the world of this evil. and some do some things that compromise their own beliefs in order to get others to see their point. Long story short, all religions cannot get along in perfect harmony and there will always be religious wars. My take on it is that in the end there will be one kingdom that will stand forever. but Ill just wait. and watch.
arthra
Baha'i
Yes Thanks for your remarks Ninerays.. I don't think any harm was done.. but w edo have to bear in mind that "firesides" are usually informal talks by Baha'is and in themselves are not that authoritative ...for the latest word we draw from the Universal House of Justice that has several messages on timely events.
Thanks for your post Shema...
You wrote:
Long story short, all religions cannot get along in perfect harmony and there will always be religious wars. My take on it is that in the end there will be one kingdom that will stand forever. but Ill just wait. and watch.
My comment:
I think that there is currently more inter-faith dialogue than there's been probably in the past two hundred years and that this is a good thing and will reduce the prejudices and ignorance of many people about religion. Already there have been a series of Parliaments of World Religions starting around 1891 at the Chicago World's Fair and the last one was a few years ago in Barcelona, Spain ...so I am very optimist about the future.. Will there continue to be fanatics out there? More than likely I suspect but with better communicatiuons in the world and with improved education I think we will see the fanatics becoming increasingly less powerful and influential.
- Art
:yes:
Thanks for your post Shema...
You wrote:
Long story short, all religions cannot get along in perfect harmony and there will always be religious wars. My take on it is that in the end there will be one kingdom that will stand forever. but Ill just wait. and watch.
My comment:
I think that there is currently more inter-faith dialogue than there's been probably in the past two hundred years and that this is a good thing and will reduce the prejudices and ignorance of many people about religion. Already there have been a series of Parliaments of World Religions starting around 1891 at the Chicago World's Fair and the last one was a few years ago in Barcelona, Spain ...so I am very optimist about the future.. Will there continue to be fanatics out there? More than likely I suspect but with better communicatiuons in the world and with improved education I think we will see the fanatics becoming increasingly less powerful and influential.
- Art
:yes:
Cosmos
Member
The division between Christianity and Islam I try to understand and view from a historic perspective in relation to the mission of the Prophets. When we understand the advent of Christ and the Prophet Muhammad through prophetical analysis we find that both were prophecised Promised Ones to become Divine Educators for the Gentiles. Christendom mainly developed to influence the Euro-Gentile world or European cultures, while Islam rooted itself in the Gentile regions of the East in Africa and Asia. Both became global in their scope and philosophies. Here we see why we have the East vs. West-Christianity vs. Islam to this very day and the racism that still lingers from cultural prejudice. Another fundamental wedge between Christian and Muslim societies is the understanding of their respective Prophet-Founders. One believe their prophet is a deity and the other does not view any divinity whatsoever being associated with the Prophets of God. Both are limited dogmas. Both can find a middle ground within their respective scriptures if they diligently seek to find harmony.