Confirmed: growth rate was different in past around time of flood!

[dad]

But the truth is, you don't know how to distinguish the spiritual from the imaginary. And now you only need to realize there's no distinction and wow! you've learnt something!

Spirits are cool folks that don't happen to have a physical body, at least the good spirits who love Jesus are. Now the bad ones don't have a body either. That is why some people are in danger that they will use theirs! One danger sign is the mouth. Take heed.

You've never been specific about what you mean by that. Indeed you avoided a thread that was intended to make your notions specific. Your ideas are formless so being specific doesn't suit you.

How could I be more specific? All evidence agrees. Offer any evidence and we'll check if you like. Why pretend you would fare well in some other thread when you fall flat as a flounder here?

Entirely false. What I rejected were not answers and did not provide intelligible responses to the question. (Absurdly claiming the K-T boundary is a flood layer.

Rather than childish protests, you would need to show why we could rule out that particular layer of sediment as being related to the flood. We wait.

No intelligible response to the genetics question, 1.1 bn cubic miles of water coming by magic from somewhere you can't specify and going by magic to somewhere you can't specify, like you're still in kindergarten ─ jeepers!)

Mountains got shoved up in the worldwide rapid plate movements after the flood, so there were no real high mountains as we know today. Your math is religious speculation based on belief only. In addition the way water was brought to and taken away from earth was via the portals in the sky that opened up in that time. The windows of heaven. There can be no limit on how much water could have been taken away.

If you parrot the same nonsense again this reply will be referred to as (3)

 

[dad]

Here you go. Arguments for and against a Different State Past

Once again you did not even respond to the points I addressed in your OP. Perhaps post mindless spam in some other thread.

You comprehend so little that you are under some false impression of grandeur. There IS scientific knowledge of the former nature! No need for belief. The fact you can't even realize that much shows it is you with a lack of understanding.

Belief in a same nature is not knowledge. Get over it. You b=need real evidence for it. Instead, we get a commercial for another thread and blather.

Show me a single verifiable claim of spirits and long life spans at any point in Earth's history.

I accept Jesus and His word and what He validated as true as verified. Science can't deal in the spiritual so it is out of the picture here on the issue. What's left, your ignorant personal incredulity? Ha.

 

[blü 2]

Spirits are cool folks that don't happen to have a physical body

That's to say, they can be found nowhere but in the imagination of individuals.

How could I be more specific?

Define exactly what changed, when exactly you say it changed, why it changed, and the evidence satisfactory to science that shows this.

Point to the universal flood lay er that the flood must have laid down all over all continents in the last 3500 years or less.

Point to the genetic bottlenecks in every land species, all of them dating to the same date as the flood.

Give a credible, non-magical and specific account of where that extra 1.1 bn cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on earth came from, how it got here, how it left and where it is now.

NONE of which you've specified in any credible manner at all.

 

[dad]

That's to say, they can be found nowhere but in the imagination of individuals.

They have been found all through history actually. What, did you think if a ghost did not peek out from your closet that this means there could be no ghosts?

Define exactly what changed, when exactly you say it changed, why it changed, and the evidence satisfactory to science that shows this.

Science does not know.

If you recall answer A it covered some key aspects of life before and after.

I have pointed out some key differences from the ancient records of life in Genesis and even history to some extent. Three of these are that spirits are recorded to have lived on earth with man. Trees grew in weeks. People lived almost 10 centuries. From the timing given in the bible, we can also make other inferences based on actual science and knowledge. Such as when the continents must have separated and how fast. Such as evolution must have happened at a hyper-fast rate compared to today. Etc.

All these things involve fundamental laws and forces of nature and how they exist and function. There is no way they could exist and work that way in the present world nature. If you ask this again this reply shall be referred to as (A)

Point to the universal flood lay er that the flood must have laid down all over all continents in the last 3500 years or less.

Not sure why you parrot questions when already answered several times. I can only deduce that you seem either incapable of honest and rational debate or that you are not here for that sort of thing. The KT layer is a sediment layer worldwide that has traces of material in it that comes from (science says) the same places that the flood water came from. Space and deep below the earth. If you parrot the same nonsense again this reply will be referred to as (1)

Point to the genetic bottlenecks in every land species, all of them dating to the same date as the flood.

Mountains got shoved up in the worldwide rapid plate movements after the flood, so there were no real high mountains as we know today. Your math is religious speculation based on belief only. In addition the way water was brought to and taken away from earth was via the portals in the sky that opened up in that time. The windows of heaven. There can be no limit on how much water could have been taken away.

If you parrot the same nonsense again this reply will be referred to as (3)

Give a credible, non-magical and specific account of where that extra 1.1 bn cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on earth came from, how it got here, how it left and where it is now.

Mountains got shoved up in the worldwide rapid plate movements after the flood, so there were no real high mountains as we know today. Your math is religious speculation based on belief only. In addition, the way water was brought to and taken away from earth was via the portals in the sky that opened up in that time. The windows of heaven. There can be no limit on how much water could have been taken away.

If you parrot the same nonsense again this reply will be referred to as (3)

You must address the issues.

 

[blü 2]

They have been found all through history actually. What, did you think if a ghost did not peek out from your closet that this means there could be no ghosts?

If spirits are real you can show me some examples. If they're not real then they're imaginary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't show me any real spirits, right?

Science does not know.

If you can't show me a real spirit, it's you who don't know.

Science, unlike you, uses an objective test for truth.

If you recall answer A it covered some key aspects of life before and after.

You're being artfully vague. State clearly what was before, when it changed, and why. Specifics. And how you know.

Don't worry about ancient records ─ the bible thinks the earth is flat, and immovably fixed, and that all the heavenly bodies go round it; and that the sky is a hard dome you can walk on and to which the stars are attached. It has no concept of gravity, or orbits, or satellites, or deep space, or the speed of light, or galaxies, or nebulae. Put not your trust in ancient documents, understand the science, get your mind around it.

 

[dad]

If spirits are real you can show me some examples. If they're not real then they're imaginary

. I am not here to discuss the historical and Scriptural reality of spirits. Nor your pig-headed denial of them for no reason.

Science, unlike you, uses an objective test for truth.
You're being artfully vague. State clearly what was before, when it changed, and why. Specifics. And how you know.

Science has no specs at all and simply believes nature was always the same. The bible gives some specifics of how life changed before and after. Takey or leavey. Meanwhile, make no faith-based claims about origins from so-called science.

Don't worry about ancient records ─ the bible thinks the earth is flat,

Old wives tale you have chosen to believe and preach. That tells us about you, not the bible.

and immovably fixed, and that all the heavenly bodies go round it;

Chapter and verse?

and that the sky is a hard dome you can walk on and to which the stars are attached.

Foolish mischaracterization.

It has no concept of gravity, or orbits, or satellites, or deep space,

No?
So why were the disciples surprised when Jesus walked on water? Why does the bible talk about circuits and courses in the heavens? Why does the bible speak of one end of heaven to the other?

or the speed of light,

The bible talks of speeds greater than light and speeds slower. Science can only dream of the speeds the bible refers to!

or galaxies, or nebulae.

God actually named a few constellations Himself in Job. He also promised Abraham his children would be more in number than all the stars one day. Don't think that just because science uses new words for groups of heavenly bodies that it came up with the concept.

Put not your trust in ancient documents, understand the science, get your mind around it.

Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

 

[blü 2]

. I am not here to discuss the historical and Scriptural reality of spirits.

And the reason is obvious ─ you don't know and you can't show.

And yet you claim them as authority for your flood story.

Science has no specs at all and simply believes nature was always the same.

Science, unlike you, has investigated such questions as whether the universal constants, and c, and other basic values in physics. ever had different values; and having looked, has found no evidence that this is so.

You simply know nothing about science, and want to deny the fraction you do so you can cling to your Harry Potter world of magic.

The bible gives some specifics of how life changed before and after.

There you go again, pretending they're there but unable to specify them. You're simply not answering the basic questions about your claims.

Meanwhile, make no faith-based claims about origins from so-called science.

"Do as I say, not as I do". Very funny ─ faith-based claims are all you've got.

Chapter and verse?

You don't even read your own book? Okay ─ biblical cosmology here.

Foolish mischaracterization.

No, as you'll see from that link, a precise summary.

So why were the disciples surprised when Jesus walked on water?

Why was Dudley surprised when Harry made the snake-house window glass disappear? Why was Miss Riding Hood surprised at the size of Grandma's eyes?

Why does the bible talk about circuits and courses in the heavens? Why does the bible speak of one end of heaven to the other?

It says that if the stars come loose they'll fall to earth ─ as you now know because you've read that link.

The bible talks of speeds greater than light and speeds slower.

No. It doesn't. Not anywhere.

Now back to the important things ─ you still fail to be specific in your claims about how nature used to be and how you know. So this time set it out clearly, persuade me you actually have something in mind other than just more bluster.

 

[gnostic]

Science has no specs at all and simply believes nature was always the same. The bible gives some specifics of how life changed before and after.

No it doesn’t.

The Bible isn’t science textbooks, let alone a biology one.

Once again, you are making things up, things that the Bible doesn’t even mentioned, let alone explain.

Science explain nature better than any other sources, and these explanations required evidence and tests to back them up.

The Bible is rather vague about explaining WHAT nature is, and HOW does nature work.

In the Book of Job, especially in chapters 38 to 41, God never explain anything about nature, like rain, snow and lightning and thunderstorms.

Hails and snow kept in storehouses?? (Job 38:22)

These chapters and their passages are the most ridiculously stupid narrative, revealing to us, that the author had no idea what cause rain and snow. All each passages say is “God did it”; they are nothing more than superstitions that offer no real answers.

For any modern person, to have education in science, like the studies of Earth’s atmosphere and meteorology would literally believed there are storehouses that store snow and hail. Such believer would have to ignore reality in accepting such uneducated author’s superstition, would have to be just as lame as the author.

 

[dad]

And the reason is obvious ─ you don't know and you can't show.

And yet you claim them as authority for your flood story.
Science, unlike you, has investigated such questions as whether the universal constants, and c, and other basic values in physics. ever had different values; and having looked, has found no evidence that this is so.

You simply know nothing about science, and want to deny the fraction you do so you can cling to your Harry Potter world of magic.
There you go again, pretending they're there but unable to specify them. You're simply not answering the basic questions about your claims.
"Do as I say, not as I do". Very funny ─ faith-based claims are all you've got.
You don't even read your own book? Okay ─ biblical cosmology here.
No, as you'll see from that link, a precise summary.
Why was Dudley surprised when Harry made the snake-house window glass disappear? Why was Miss Riding Hood surprised at the size of Grandma's eyes?
It says that if the stars come loose they'll fall to earth ─ as you now know because you've read that link.
No. It doesn't. Not anywhere.

Now back to the important things ─ you still fail to be specific in your claims about how nature used to be and how you know. So this time set it out clearly, persuade me you actually have something in mind other than just more bluster.

If there is something in science you think we don't know, post it. As for your opinions on truth and God, no thanks.

The deeper meanings of what the stars falling to earth mean could be worth discussing somewhere in a thread related to that sort of thing. Cosmology is so whacked out and off base that you would need to be prepared to defend your beliefs in that area. Obviously you can't defend them here so I would suggest you don't waste people's time on that project. Cheers.

 

[gnostic]

Don't worry about ancient records ─ the bible thinks the earth is flat

Old wives tale you have chosen to believe and preach. That tells us about you, not the bible.

If the Earth is spheroid in shape, then the Earth isn’t flat, and it would have no edges...and yet in Job 38, we have this verse that us the Earth has edges...

that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

If anyone telling us “Old Wives Tale” is Job.

There is silly notion that if you sail too close to the edge of the Earth, you would fall off. This is basically what Job 38:13 is saying. Old wives tale, indeed.

It just show stupid the author was.

 

[dad]

No it doesn’t.

The Bible isn’t science textbooks, let alone a biology one.

And science is not gospel. So? Science is based in this present physical world and does fine here thanks. (except for the womd, baby killing, sex changes and etc)
Science does not cover the future nor creation, period.

Once again, you are making things up, things that the Bible doesn’t even mentioned, let alone explain.

The bible certainly does outline some key differences before and after actually.
I have pointed out some key differences from the ancient records of life in Genesis and even history to some extent. Three of these are that spirits are recorded to have lived on earth with man. Trees grew in weeks. People lived almost 10 centuries. From the timing given in the bible, we can also make other inferences based on actual science and knowledge. Such as when the continents must have separated and how fast. Such as evolution must have happened at a hyper-fast rate compared to today. Etc.

All these things involve fundamental laws and forces of nature and how they exist and function. There is no way they could exist and work that way in the present world nature. If you ask this again this reply shall be referred to as (A)

Science explain nature better than any other sources, and these explanations required evidence and tests to back them up.

Science uses exclusively fishbowl explanations. They do not even apply to the former nature, as much as you love them.

The Bible is rather vague about explaining WHAT nature is, and HOW does nature work.

Why waste too much time on what will soon be no more? A new nature (much like the former nature) is coming!

In the Book of Job, especially in chapters 38 to 41, God never explain anything about nature, like rain, snow and lightning and thunderstorms.

Hails and snow kept in storehouses?? (Job 38:22)

That depends on the context. You see, people familiar with Scripture reconize certain key phrases found throughout the bible. Phrases like 'the last days' 'in that day' etc. If you look at the very next verse after the one you cited we see one of these.

Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, 23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

So whatever was said relates to a time still to come when great judgments from God come upon a wicked world. Judgments that include hail and fire reigning down from above. So wherever or whatever causes these things are already planned and locked and loaded and ready to be released one day. They are in store.

These chapters and their passages are the most ridiculously stupid narrative, revealing to us, that the author had no idea what cause rain and snow. All each passages say is “God did it”; they are nothing more than superstitions that offer no real answers.

For people who do not comprehend what they read, of course, they seem silly. We do need to ask God for His wisdom and Spirit to understand His word.

For any modern person, to have education in science, like the studies of Earth’s atmosphere and meteorology would literally believed there are storehouses that store snow and hail. Such believer would have to ignore reality in accepting such uneducated author’s superstition, would have to be just as lame as the author.

For you to display such a less than kindergarten level grasp of Scripture only shows where you are at, bot where His word is at.

 

[dad]

If the Earth is spheroid in shape, then the Earth isn’t flat, and it would have no edges...and yet in Job 38, we have this verse that us the Earth has edges...

The earth is not flat, claiming the bible says otherwise is a silly old wive's tale.

If anyone telling us “Old Wives Tale” is Job.

It seems like that to those who cannot comprehend what they read.

There is silly notion that if you sail too close to the edge of the Earth, you would fall off. This is basically what Job 38:13 is saying. Old wives tale, indeed.

If you thought that was from the bible that is silly indeed. Get a grip.

It just show stupid the author was.

It does show stupidity, not of the Author, but the reader.

 

[blü 2]

If the Earth is spheroid in shape, then the Earth isn’t flat, and it would have no edges...and yet in Job 38, we have this verse that us the Earth has edges...



If anyone telling us “Old Wives Tale” is Job.

There is silly notion that if you sail too close to the edge of the Earth, you would fall off. This is basically what Job 38:13 is saying. Old wives tale, indeed.

It just show stupid the author was.

That may be rather harsh. The bible reflects the science understood in the times and places it was written ─ the science of the civilization of Babylon, in particular ─ and it's consistent from Torah to NT. The idea of a spherical earth is Greek, and though the idea is older, Eratosthenes' demonstration (which was not particularly influential in its time anyway) was not till the 3rd century BCE, after the Tanakh was written. Even after that, most people, some of them very smart, were content to believe their eyes ─ the earth is flat and the sun moon and stars go round it. A spherical earth isn't intuitive ─ at least I didn't find it so when I was a little kid.

 

[blü 2]

If there is something in science you think we don't know, post it.

Still no particulars of your claims. They're like your spirits, your supernatural, imaginary.

As for your opinions on truth and God, no thanks.

Instead you have faith-based claims, which you yourself don't understand, and which are all you've got.

The deeper meanings of what the stars falling to earth mean could be worth discussing somewhere in a thread related to that sort of thing.

There are no 'deeper meanings' ─ that was simply the cosmology of the time and place in which the bible authors were writing, based on the cosmology of Babylon. Nothing mystical about it all ─ it's what they thought, and as you can see, what they wrote.

You forgot to point out where the bible mentions the speed of light too.

 

[Tiberius]

The thread is not about proving last week existed.

Nah, it's about you trying to support your claim that there was a different state in the past. And you've failed.

 

[Tiberius]

Once again you did not even respond to the points I addressed in your OP. Perhaps post mindless spam in some other thread.

My OP? My opening post? The only thread in which I have the opening post is the one you seem to be unable to post in.

Belief in a same nature is not knowledge. Get over it. You b=need real evidence for it. Instead, we get a commercial for another thread and blather.

And I've got it. I've presented it. You are unable to understand it.

And yet you insist on pretending that your inability to understand is my fault.

I accept Jesus and His word and what He validated as true as verified. Science can't deal in the spiritual so it is out of the picture here on the issue. What's left, your ignorant personal incredulity? Ha.

So you decide what is true, and then you go around looking for ways to support that belief.

That's a terrible way to find out how the world really works.

 

[dad]

Still no particulars of your claims. They're like your spirits, your supernatural, imaginary.

The particulars are that science does not know what nature existed in the past. You verify that in your fail.
As for specifics in the bible before and after the change, yes we do have those, for folks that can read.

There are no 'deeper meanings'

Not for the shallow, no. But there certainly are deep things in Scripture, no secret there.

─ that was simply the cosmology of the time and place in which the bible authors were writing, based on the cosmology of Babylon. Nothing mystical about it all ─ it's what they thought, and as you can see, what they wrote.

In your distorted little mind, that could be the case. Sorry to hear that.

You forgot to point out where the bible mentions the speed of light too.

As stated, for those who can read and not ignore posts they are supposedly responding to- the bible mentions speeds far greater than light. It also mentions light that is not like electromagnetic light.

 

[dad]

Nah, it's about you trying to support your claim that there was a different state in the past. And you've failed.

Nah. It's time you stayed exposed for being unable to support the beliefs you have fraudulently offered as science. Really.
The bible is already supported no need to do that here. When it tells of the past we can take it seriously. When your baseless religion tells us of the past, it is false and made up and cannot be supported.

 

[dad]

My OP? My opening post? The only thread in which I have the opening post is the one you seem to be unable to post in.

Generally, when you start a thread the first post is referred to as the OP.

And I've got it. I've presented it.

You offered radioactive decay and were told that does not apply to the past unless you prove the same bnature and laws on earth existed. You could not debate or face the issues and we see insane obsessive spam instead here.

And yet you insist on pretending that your inability to understand is my fault.

What I understand is that your attempt to attribute all radioactive isotope levels to this nature is a joke and utterly unsupported. You can't even discuss it.
You have exhibited a disconnect with reality and truth.

 

[Tiberius]

Nah. It's time you stayed exposed for being unable to support the beliefs you have fraudulently offered as science. Really.

If being unable to support a position means that position is fraudulent, what does it say about your position when you've never even attempted to support it and you've run away from any opportunity to do so?

The bible is already supported no need to do that here.

No it isn't. Please show me some evidence from reality that supports the Bible's claims of a different state past.

Please note that evidence from reality does NOT include more of your old stories.

When it tells of the past we can take it seriously.

No we can't.

When your baseless religion tells us of the past, it is false and made up and cannot be supported.

My position is based on reality. Your position is based on stories written by goat herders who thought that goats mating near a striped post would result in striped baby goats.