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Confession about free exercise of religion

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I am not for the bullying of any people, including LGBT's. But just as a party company may wish not to provide for a celebration of an adulterous relationship, they may wish not to provide for a gay one too. We have to support people following their conscience.
Or a mixed-race relationship, or a mixed-faith relationship, or a relationship between disabled people, or a Christian confirmation, or a Jewish bar mitzvah...

If your argument is that business should be free to discriminate against individuals in line with their "conscience", you have to accept any kind of discrimination, regardless of whether you agree with that "conscience" or not. Are you really calling for the elimination or all anti-discrimination law or only the sub-set you personally object to?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Well, if I'd use your logic, yes, that would be a reasonable request.
You don't like men marrying men, you don't like women marrying women, why should I accept Jews marrying Jews?
No one, no one is objecting to Jews marrying Jews.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No one, no one is objecting to Jews marrying Jews.
That's right... because - though it was a long road to get there - it's now generally accepted that Jews deserve basic human rights.

The next step is for you in turn to acknowledge that LGBTQ people also deserve basic human rights.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I am not for the bullying of any people, including LGBT's.
That depends on whether you actually put the discriminatory stuff you argue here into practice in real life.

But just as a party company may wish not to provide for a celebration of an adulterous relationship, they may wish not to provide for a gay one too. We have to support people following their conscience.
And we do: nobody is forced to open a wedding cake bakery. No baker is forced to keep their doors open.

As long as nobody is forced to make wedding cakes in general, nobody is forced to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples.

There's a very easy way for a baker to avoid having to make a wedding cake for a gay couple: just don't make wedding cakes.

So you really aren't asking for freedom of conscience; they already have that. What you're asking for is freedom from responsibility, which isn't a thing.

Or with a medical professional whose job involves abortions: you're asking for them to have the freedom to keep the job they voluntarily accepted even though they refuse to do it. Again: this is not freedom of conscience.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You don't know about the special laws Jews were subject to during most of European history? Prohibition of taking "honourable" jobs? Special "protection"?
That's not the problem here. The problem is with your assumption that jews do not continue to suffer discrimintion and antisemitic attacks.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I still like his policies

You mean, the policies of burning bridges, lying through ones teeth, undoing all of the great work of the past 20 years, completely ignoring and lying about Covid19, making America irrelevant on the international scene and handing over the torch to countries like China to become the new superpower leader of the world?


Also, kind of hilarious to think that The Donald is the "christian" who's gonna "save" america from "secularism". This is the guy who used pornstars as prostitutes and who has said on tape about women that you "just have to grab them by the kitten(*)", and who then lied about that to. On top of the other 15k+ lies that have been documented during his presidency.


(*) use a synonym here.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The 10 commandments have played an important part in the foundation of our culture. Baphomet has not.

People keep saying that, but it's simply not true.

4 of them deal with god worship, which is irrelevant in secular society.
The other 6 are common sense, and pretty much universal values in all cultures, including non-judeo-christian ones, and not at all exclusive to abrahamic religion. They are in essence merely stating the obvious.

What, did you think that if it wasn't for judeo-christian religion, that societies today would consider it just fine to murder and steal?


Think again.


Sure, western culture has a judeo-christian heritage and this heritage is deeply engrained in that culture. Primarily in terms of language, holidays, etc.

But the idea that we think things like murder and stealing is not okay is due to the 10 commandments, is simply absurd.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I think you're projecting.

During the Coronavirus closures, secular businesses (abortion clinics, for example) were often declared "essential" and had a right to be open with little or no restriction.

Meanwhile, churches still haven't managed properly to do wedding or funerals. Neither the state, nor their own bishops, will allow them to carry out their business as normal. Meanwhile, the death of infants hasn't gone down one bit under the actions of such clinics. In fact, they've been going up.

Why You Can Still Get An Abortion During The Coronavirus Pandemic

Someone wants themselves to have special privileges. Meanwhile, religious people just want the state to leave them alone.

Health services ARE essential.

Even more so then otherwise when there is a health crisis going on.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I am not for the bullying of any people, including LGBT's. But just as a party company may wish not to provide for a celebration of an adulterous relationship, they may wish not to provide for a gay one too. We have to support people following their conscience.

I bet you only hold that opinion, until YOU are on the receiving end of people "following their conscience".
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The ten commandments are very much part of the Torah, which is the legal document of the People of Israel. Is it a religious text also? Sure. That's what makes the Torah important iin histoy -- God became involved in the ethics, morality, and legalities of how we treat each other. There are 613 laws in the Torah on all sorts of things.

The US isn't israel.
 
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