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Confession about free exercise of religion

IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Neither of these are "forcing people to do abortions." Every medical profession has a standard of care; practitioners can't pick and choose for arbitrary reasons. Refusing to do abortions is as unethical as, say, refusing to do pap smears.


Again: not forcing. Nobody is forced to open a bakery and no bakery is forced to make wedding cakes.

All the law says is that if your business chooses to sell to the public, it must do so equitably.

BTW: how would you feel about a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a Jewish wedding?
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Jewish is an ethnicity. One does not chose one's ethnicity. Marrying a member of the same sex is a choice, a behavior, not a state of being.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
It is a religious document, but it is also a legal document. It has unique status, like the magna carta.
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That's a contradiction in itself. Either it is unique or it is like something else.
And exactly that was my question you choose not to answer. If the 10 commandments are culturally important and they are like the Magna Carta, shouldn't the Magna Carta be displayed besides the 10 commandments?

If it is unique and not like the Magna Carta, what makes it unique? The fact that it's religious?
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Jewish is an ethnicity. One does not chose one's ethnicity. Marrying a member of the same sex is a choice, a behavior, not a state of being.
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One does not choose one's sexual orientation. Marrying in a synagogue is a choice, a behaviour, not a state of being. You could do without it.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Sure it is. For good or ill, we live in a Christian culture.
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Kinda sorta... though our - or at least my "Christian culture" is often anti-Christian because of sectarianism.

Fun fact: it's illegal for members of only one religious group to become head of state of my country. There's no law against a Jew, Muslim, or atheist ascending to the throne of Canada, but it's against the law for a Catholic.

In any case, despite my country's history, I think we can do better. Within my parents' lifetime, there were businesses in Canada that would - legally - refuse Jewish customers. I think this was wrong and I'm glad the law changed. I just recognize that LGBTQ people are as deserving of equality as Jews are... which is something you seem to have trouble with.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
It is a religious document, but it is also a legal document. It has unique status, like the magna carta.
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The Ten Commandments are not a legal document.

They're nothing more than the rules of a particular club... on par with, say, the by-laws of my car club. The only difference is in the size of the membership of the two clubs.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
The Ten Commandments are not a legal document.
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They were. And I'd include them in a long list of important legal documents together with the Code of Hamurabi, the Athenean principles of democracy, the Roman principles of law (which are still in use and it shows in all the technical terms), the Magna Carta, the Code Civil and others.
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Are you on about abortion?

Abortion itself is a moot point: banning it is unconstitutional, so any party promising to ban it is lying to you.

If you care about actual babies, then I'd suggest the voting for a party that will do more about things like universal health care, infant mortality, and maternal access to childcare... which sure as hell isn't the Republicans.
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Huh?

D's will put in liberal judges, R's try to get conservative judges into Scotus. Roe v. Wade is close to being overturned!
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Heyo said:
That's a contradiction in itself. Either it is unique or it is like something else.
And exactly that was my question you choose not to answer. If the 10 commandments are culturally important and they are like the Magna Carta, shouldn't the Magna Carta be displayed besides the 10 commandments?

If it is unique and not like the Magna Carta, what makes it unique? The fact that it's religious?
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Absolutely the Magna Carta should similarly be displayed.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Heyo said:
One does not choose one's sexual orientation. Marrying in a synagogue is a choice, a behaviour, not a state of being. You could do without it.
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I'm not coming down on anyone for BEING gay. The question is rather should they engage in gay sex, which is a behavior, not a state of being.

Are you arguing that Jews shouldn't marry other Jews?
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Kinda sorta... though our - or at least my "Christian culture" is often anti-Christian because of sectarianism.

Fun fact: it's illegal for members of only one religious group to become head of state of my country. There's no law against a Jew, Muslim, or atheist ascending to the throne of Canada, but it's against the law for a Catholic.

In any case, despite my country's history, I think we can do better. Within my parents' lifetime, there were businesses in Canada that would - legally - refuse Jewish customers. I think this was wrong and I'm glad the law changed. I just recognize that LGBTQ people are as deserving of equality as Jews are... which is something you seem to have trouble with.
Click to expand...

I am not for the bullying of any people, including LGBT's. But just as a party company may wish not to provide for a celebration of an adulterous relationship, they may wish not to provide for a gay one too. We have to support people following their conscience.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
9-10ths_Penguin said:
The Ten Commandments are not a legal document.

They're nothing more than the rules of a particular club... on par with, say, the by-laws of my car club. The only difference is in the size of the membership of the two clubs.
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The ten commandments are very much part of the Torah, which is the legal document of the People of Israel. Is it a religious text also? Sure. That's what makes the Torah important iin histoy -- God became involved in the ethics, morality, and legalities of how we treat each other. There are 613 laws in the Torah on all sorts of things.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
But one does choose whether to have sex or not and with whom. It is a behavior. We expect pedophiles to be celibate for example.
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It really isn't that hard a question to answer:

How would you feel about a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a Jewish wedding?
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm not coming down on anyone for BEING gay. The question is rather should they engage in gay sex, which is a behavior, not a state of being.

Are you arguing that Jews shouldn't marry other Jews?
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Well, if I'd use your logic, yes, that would be a reasonable request.
You don't like men marrying men, you don't like women marrying women, why should I accept Jews marrying Jews?
 
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