Concern about Atheism

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, so I've seen atheists say before that they wouldn't mind having a completely atheistic world, because they don't need religion for morals. Wouldn't that technically only work if the people in that world were good people by nature? Like what if the people were really bad, and the society started to get more and more corrupt? Then what would atheists do to get the society back to functioning?

Probably the same sorts of things that religious people do when their religions become corrupt, but with much less inertia, thanks to the fact that nobody would believe that the corrupt system was a divine creation.

I think it's odd that you apparently believe that religion is some sort of guard against corruption or immorality. I think history has shown that this isn't generally the case. In fact, in many cases, religions have become tools in the hands of corrupt and immoral leaders and societies.

Yes, and another thing, I find it funny that atheists make the exact same claim as Muslims. Muslims claim we're all born Muslim, atheists claim we're all born atheist, LOL.

Not this atheist.

From what I've been able to gather, we're born with a rudimentary sort of animism. This doesn't have any bearing on which belief system is better, though.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I am not saying religious governments haven't been corrupt or misused. I'm saying how would it be handled in an atheistic society if the government and the society were totally corrupt, seeing things like rape, etc. as perfectly okay? Since I've heard some atheists say calling rape immoral is subjective. How would this be handled in an atheistic society? Don't you see that if the majority of people in an atheistic society were bad it would lead to bad things being determined as moral, and no one could say immoral, because morals are subjective?

 

[Tristesse]

I am not saying religious governments haven't been corrupt or misused. I'm saying how would it be handled in an atheistic society if the government and the society were totally corrupt, seeing things like rape, etc. as perfectly okay? Since I've heard some atheists say calling rape immoral is subjective. How would this be handled in an atheistic society? Don't you see that if the majority of people in an atheistic society were bad it would lead to bad things being determined as moral, and no one could say immoral, because morals are subjective?

Morals are subjective to a certain degree. Again, atheism is not a world view.

 

[SugaCubez352]

Since I've heard some atheists say calling rape immoral is subjective. How would this be handled in an atheistic society? Don't you see that if the majority of people in an atheistic society were bad it would lead to bad things being determined as moral, and no one could say immoral, because morals are subjective?

So what you are implying is that unless humans are told: "God exists, there is a hell or endless rebirth if you commits sins like rape" that they will rape and be immoral?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I said I wasn't saying that suga cubez. I am simply wondering how an atheistic society would handle such issues if they arise?

 

[Tristesse]

I said I wasn't saying that suga cubez. I am simply wondering how an atheistic society would handle such issues if they arise?

What issues? The atheists I know seem to handle these issues pretty well.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am not saying religious governments haven't been corrupt or misused. I'm saying how would it be handled in an atheistic society if the government and the society were totally corrupt, seeing things like rape, etc. as perfectly okay? Since I've heard some atheists say calling rape immoral is subjective. How would this be handled in an atheistic society? Don't you see that if the majority of people in an atheistic society were bad it would lead to bad things being determined as moral, and no one could say immoral, because morals are subjective?

You understand, of course, that every single one of these things also applies to a religious society, right? If the majority of people in a religious society are "bad" then that would also lead to bad things being determined as moral.

How would an atheistic society curb this? Simple logic - the majority of people are, and most likely always will be, good people who want the best for themselves and those around them. As long as this is true, as it practically always has been, social morality will always tend towards ideologies which are conductive and helpful to society.

In other words: an atheistic society would deal with it's problems almost the exact same way a religious society would. The only significant difference being that it's capable of moving morality forward, rather than preferring to slow down progression in favor of outdated ideologies.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not saying religious governments haven't been corrupt or misused.

I know you're not. And I'm trying to point out that when you disregard this fact, you don't see the whole picture.

I'm saying how would it be handled in an atheistic society if the government and the society were totally corrupt, seeing things like rape, etc. as perfectly okay? Since I've heard some atheists say calling rape immoral is subjective.

Whether morality is subjective or not, I'm certainly opposed to it and I demand a say in how my government functions. I have no obligation to accept the system of right and wrong that my government tries to feed me.

But what would you do if your religious government decided that not only were things like rape perfectly okay, they were demanded by God? How would you debate against something like that?

How would this be handled in an atheistic society?

Depends on what sort of atheistic society you're talking about. An atheist dictatorship would handle it like a dictatorship. An atheist democracy would handle it like a democracy.

Don't you see that if the majority of people in an atheistic society were bad it would lead to bad things being determined as moral, and no one could say immoral, because morals are subjective?

If the majority of people in any society are bad, it will lead to bad things being determined as moral.

Also, in a system that declares the existence of objective morality, you the average person don't get to say what's moral or immoral either, because you're not the moral authority.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Issues like if the society were to totally get out of control, and the government of that society too. How would the government get the citizens back to sanity?

 

[SugaCubez352]

I said I wasn't saying that suga cubez. I am simply wondering how an atheistic society would handle such issues if they arise?

The same way a SECULAR State, Nation, City, would handle the issue. Make laws and enforce those laws.

In a secular society just because people are not governed by religious/theistic laws, does not mean they will like to be raped and robbed. Considering that they will not like being raped and robbed, they will draft laws and vote on such laws, to keep everybody save.

 

[Tristesse]

Issues like if the society were to totally get out of control, and the government of that society too. How would the government get the citizens back to sanity?

And you think religion keeps them in check?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Okay, I'm not denying that this could happen in religious societies too. Religion doesn't make good people. Neither does atheism. Just trying to get answers and opinions. Thanks folks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Issues like if the society were to totally get out of control, and the government of that society too. How would the government get the citizens back to sanity?

With great difficulty.

But I'd say that it would still be much easier than performing the same feat with a society where people thought that their societal insanity was a gift from God to be cherished and protected.

 

[Tristesse]

I think if people embrace atheism for good rational reasons, than I think the society would be better off.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, I'm not denying that this could happen in religious societies too. Religion doesn't make good people. Neither does atheism. Just trying to get answers and opinions. Thanks folks.

So why the thread's emphasis on atheism, then?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Because I want the opinions and answers of atheists mostly.

 

[SugaCubez352]

I think if people embrace atheism for good rational reasons, than I think the society would be better off.

I definitely agree... seeing as how religion often actually causes and drives people to do immoral things, such as blowing themselves up for Jihad... mistreating untouchables as inhuman... protestants killing catholics and vise versa... etc...

 

[Amill]

Wouldn't that technically only work if the people in that world were good people by nature?

Hows that any different than a religious world? From an atheist's perspective religious values are created by people, both good and evil, so the problem is there either way.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

But what if a person doesn't believe atheism? What if we really believe there is a god? Would we be forced to keep our expressions of that belief in secret?

 

[SugaCubez352]

Because I want the opinions and answers of atheists mostly.

The title of your OP "Concern with Atheism" would suggest otherwise Yosef...