Concept of Brahman in Hinduism

[SalixIncendium]

If I understand correctly, the goal for Hindus is to become "one" with Brahman.

As @Jainarayan mentioned, you're thinking of Advaita Vedanta, which is one of many Hindu philosophies, but your assessment is not quite accurate. It is less about "becoming 'one' with Brahman" than it is realizing one's true nature as Atman, which is identical to Brahman.

To be "absorbed" back into the "ultimate reality".

As a droplet of water is "absorbed" into the ocean.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Everybody wants to be a "superman", but nobody wants the Godly responsibilities that go with it.

I want to be a "Doctor Strange," but then again I'm more of a Marvel guy.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

As @Jainarayan mentioned, you're thinking of Advaita Vedanta, which is one of many Hindu philosophies, but your assessment is not quite accurate. It is less about "becoming 'one' with Brahman" than it is realizing one's true nature as Atman, which is identical to Brahman.



As a droplet of water is "absorbed" into the ocean.

As @Jainarayan mentioned, you're thinking of Advaita Vedanta, which is one of many Hindu philosophies, but your assessment is not quite accurate. It is less about "becoming 'one' with Brahman" than it is realizing one's true nature as Atman, which is identical to Brahman.



As a droplet of water is "absorbed" into the ocean.

Yes, I understand and have heard that analogy many times. But that assessment is not quite accurate either.
We can NEVER , EVER, KNOW "Brahman" ( the Father ). Not in fullness, that's not possible. But someone tried long, long ago.

And that someone was a lot closer to the "Source" than we are now...
and that failed attempt is what got us into this mess here to begin with.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, I understand and have heard that analogy many times. But that assessment is not quite accurate either.
We can NEVER , EVER, KNOW "Brahman" ( the Father ). Not in fullness, that's not possible. But someone tried long, long ago.

And that someone was a lot closer to the "Source" than we are now...
and that failed attempt is what got us into this mess here to begin with.

I'm assuming that by "we" you mean you and the mouse in your pocket?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I'm assuming that by "we" you mean you and the mouse in your pocket?

"Wisdom" personified (Sophia) tried it, didn't work out too well, as you can see....
so you go right ahead and knock yourself out.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I want to be a "Doctor Strange," but then again I'm more of a Marvel guy.

Hey....that's just "marvelous"..

 

[SalixIncendium]

"Wisdom" personified (Sophia) tried it, didn't work out too well, as you can see....
so you go right ahead and knock yourself out.

I have no idea what you're attempting to say here. Are you trying to tell me that I'm somehow personifying wisdom? If so, please tell me how.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I have no idea what you're attempting to say here. Are you trying to tell me that I'm somehow personifying wisdom? If so, please tell me how.

lol....no, I can definitely tell you that you are not somehow personifying wisdom...
but, I can tell you that the true "fall" of humankind was primordial, and long before the "beginning" (genesis).

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think the human rights records for women in both our countries (especially yours) speaks for itself in this regard.

I would not deny that, but India has made great progress in that field. There is no field in which Indian women have not excelled. The current debate is whether they should be given full combat roles or not.

We can NEVER , EVER, KNOW "Brahman" ( the Father ). Not in fullness, that's not possible. But someone tried long, long ago.

We have a fair idea of what Brahman is. It is eternal, changeless, form-independent and uninvolved. As for Father and Mother, Sankaracharya said:

"Na me mṛityuśaṅkā na me jātibhedaḥ, pitā naiva me naiva mātā na janmaḥ;
na bandhur na mitraṃ guru naiva śişyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."

I do not have fear of death nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am the form of eternal bliss, the auspicious (Śivam), I am indeed, Shiva.
Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia (Six verses of Advita)

The only thing that puzzles me is that whether Brahman can go into non-existent phase? I have a doubt that it can. Existence and non-existence belong to human perspective. Probably, Brahman is not bound by it, and that is why 'Zero Energy Universe' and 'Creatio Ex-nihilo' are possibilities.

The question of Father and Mother arises when one believes in duality or multiplicity. For a believer in non-duality, there is no other. That is why I am an atheist. I was it before the earth formed, I am it while I live, I will be it even after my physical death.

Please note: These are my views on Advaita. These do not in any way impinge of different Advaita views that other Hindus may have.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I would not deny that, but India has made great progress in that field. There is no field in which Indian women have not excelled. The current debate is whether they should be given full combat roles or not.
We have a fair idea of what Brahman is. It is eternal, changeless, form-independent and uninvolved. As for Father and Mother, Sankaracharya said:

"Na me mṛityuśaṅkā na me jātibhedaḥ, pitā naiva me naiva mātā na janmaḥ;
na bandhur na mitraṃ guru naiva śişyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."

I do not have fear of death nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am the form of eternal bliss, the auspicious (Śivam), I am indeed, Shiva.
Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia (Six verses of Advita)

The only thing that puzzles me is that whether Brahman can go into non-existent phase? I have a doubt that it can. Existence and non-existence belong to human perspective. Probably, Brahman is not bound by it, and that is why 'Zero Energy Universe' and 'Creatio Ex-nihilo' are possibilities.

The question of Father and Mother arises when one believes in duality or multiplicity. For a believer in non-duality, there is no other. That is why I am an atheist. I was it before the earth formed, I am it while I live, I will be it even after my physical death.

Please note: These are my views on Advaita. These do not in any way impinge of different Advaita views that other Hindus may have.

Yes, gnostic thought too has many different "flavors", if you will. I see the Father (that you identify with Brahman) above and beyond mere "existence". If fact we understand that this physical realm, this universe itself, has NO true "existence" as of yet. This place is sort of like a "proving ground" so to speak. And we are just "clay models" for now, until we come into True Being.

And the "duality" you speak of is nothing but an illusion ("maya"), as you already know. So what appears to be opposites, and separate, are in truth polar aspects of one and the same thing. And when you join the two, they become ONE.

"Male" and "Female" ( Yin and Yang ) are the two greatest eternal spiritual principles. It is the "intercourse" of the two coming together that makes everything go (creation). They are the "Mind" (male) and the "Thought" (female) of the Father (Brahman). So, you should realize that everything here is but a "shadow" of the True Reality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No. I don't. I am myself Brahman, so are you too. Every thing in the universe is but Brahman, no exception. 'Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma" (All things here are Brahman), so said Mandukya Upanishad. As Sankara said 'No father, no mother, nor even birth or death', all illusions. Brahman does not get born, Brahman does not ever die. It is eternal.

 

[ManSinha]

"Male" and "Female" ( Yin and Yang ) are the two greatest eternal spiritual principles. It is the "intercourse" of the two coming together that makes everything go (creation). They are the "Mind" (male) and the "Thought" (female) of the Father (Brahman). So, you should realize that everything here is but a "shadow" of the True Reality.

IMO - the moment you speak of "male" and "female" anything you are moving away from the concept of Brahman. As some may agree - the Brahman has two forms if you will "Sargun" - with attributes and "Nirgun" - without attributes - two sides of the same coin

In reference to the quote by @Aupmanyav

"Na me mṛityuśaṅkā na me jātibhedaḥ, pitā naiva me naiva mātā na janmaḥ;
na bandhur na mitraṃ guru naiva śişyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."

Guru Gobind Singh - the 10th Master - composed an entire poem, among others, on the subject - but these verses are eerily similar

In the opinion of many - the thrust of the entire composition is "Do not try to understand - for it is beyond normal comprehension"

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

IMO - the moment you speak of "male" and "female" anything you are moving away from the concept of Brahman. As some may agree - the Brahman has two forms if you will "Sargun" - with attributes and "Nirgun" - without attributes - two sides of the same coin

View attachment 37152

In reference to the quote by @Aupmanyav



Guru Gobind Singh - the 10th Master - composed an entire poem, among others, on the subject - but these verses are eerily similar

View attachment 37154

In the opinion of many - the thrust of the entire composition is "Do not try to understand - for it is beyond normal comprehension"

It's not so hard to understand, when you can see the "forest" without the "trees" obstructing your "view". There is a reason for the concepts of "mother" and "father", and WHY every single human being, including you, has BOTH.

 

[ManSinha]

It's not so hard to understand, when you can see the "forest" without the "trees" obstructing your "view". There is a reason for the concepts of "mother" and "father", and WHY every single human being, including you, has BOTH.

Yeah but what about the bacteria that multiply by splitting themselves? Or the trees that multiply / procreate with seeds or the asexual reproduction seen in nature? No father and mother in those cases. Or are you going to restrict the concept of Brahman to humans only? The Universe is far more than that

Anyway - this line of debate has nothing to do with the OP - so I am done debating with you on this here

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

No. I don't. I am myself Brahman, so are you too. Every thing in the universe is but Brahman, no exception. 'Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma" (All things here are Brahman), so said Mandukya Upanishad. As Sankara said 'No father, no mother, nor even birth or death', all illusions. Brahman does not get born, Brahman does not ever die. It is eternal.

Of course, everything that is, is ultimately "Brahman", or the "Father" or whatever name we give to the ultimate reality. But as I mentioned to you already, not everything that is, has true "existence" yet. This is WHY the physical forms here in this world are "illusions"......
they are not "real", they do not "exist", they are as nothing.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Yeah but what about the bacteria that multiply by splitting themselves? Or the trees that multiply / procreate with seeds or the asexual reproduction seen in nature? No father and mother in those cases. Or are you going to restrict the concept of Brahman to humans only? The Universe is far more than that

Anyway - this line of debate has nothing to do with the OP - so I am done debating with you on this here

If you cannot know the difference between bacteria and humans, then you cannot know Brahman.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you cannot know the difference between bacteria and humans, then you cannot know Brahman.

What does this nonsense have to do with the thread topic?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But as I mentioned to you already, not everything that is, has true "existence" yet. This is WHY the physical forms here in this world are "illusions" ... they are not "real", they do not "exist", they are as nothing.

Nothing that we experience as objects is true, but there is a truth behind their existence, otherwise the illusion would not have occurred. That is Brahman, and as per my view that is spacetime/energy or whatever you may choose to call it. Though I would not call it 'father', because that will require a 'mother'. That is a loaded word of the Christian world.

If you cannot know the difference between bacteria and humans, then you cannot know Brahman.

I know the sameness of bacteria and humans. Some beneficial, some harmful.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Nothing that we experience as objects is true, but there is a truth behind their existence, otherwise the illusion would not have occurred. That is Brahman, and as per my view that is spacetime/energy or whatever you may choose to call it. Though I would not call it 'father', because that will require a 'mother'. That is a loaded word of the Christian world. I know the sameness of bacteria and humans. Some beneficial, some harmful.

No, I already explained that "Mind" is male, and that "Thought" is female. Together they are One, and from which Union, another
thought is "conceived". That would be the "Son" (child). That would be YOU and me. So I hope you can see that you are much more
precious to the Father (Brahman) than bacteria.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Brahman is uninvolved. It does not differentiate between a bacteria or a human. Brahman is not my father, I am it. Incorrect use of the word.
Mind is a temporary phenomenon which will get extinguished at my (so-called) death. The metaphor do not suit Indian thought.