Compromising your religion to "keep up with the times"

[pdoel]

What is it about "the times" that Aqua is changing for? I believe that the thread started with something to the effect of Aqua ranting about people changing their religious beliefs according to changes in society. I don't see that this falls into that category. Actually, I only started reading this thread recently. I'm not even sure how it got on this topic.

Well, what I find to be a contradiction is that she started off ranting about people changing their religious beliefs to "keep with the times". But then later said she's ok if it happens gradually over time, she just doesn't like it when it happens suddenly.

I think either way, it's still "changing with the times". So there's no real difference.

In addition, she's perfectly fine with changing religious doctrine if a "Prophet" tells her to. Which, to me, seems a bit odd.

She discounts that if a person has a personal relationship with God, and feels that God is guiding them through life, that is wrong. But if a third party says, "Hey, God spoke to me, and said you should do this." that is acceptable.

I dunno. I just don't get that.

 

[Aqualung]

My name is not Paul.

I know. I was saying that Paul said it. :areyoucra

Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Isreal: The LORD our God is one LORD."

I know. The lord our god is one lord. It says nothing about the possiblity of other gods that are not our lords.

1 Kings 8:60 "That all the people of the Earth know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else."

Yes, there is no other god for us except for the LORD. He is god, and beside him we have no other God.

Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Yes, meaining we have no other god.

Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Isreal; The Lord our God is one Lord."

He is one lord, because there is only one lord on governing this earth. The god governing us is just one god, not a whole slew of them.

 

[Aqualung]

In addition, she's perfectly fine with changing religious doctrine if a "Prophet" tells her to. Which, to me, seems a bit odd.

Why? No it's you who seems to be thinking that god is a liar. He specifically states in amos that he won't change anything without telling us through prophets.

 

[SoyLeche]

My name is not Paul.

Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Isreal: The LORD our God is one LORD."

1 Kings 8:60 "That all the people of the Earth know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else."

Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Isreal; The Lord our God is one Lord."



I'd say those are rather clear. Again, what "Prophet" has told you that what God himself told us, is wrong?

If you use my comparison to a biological father in each of those, they come out all right.

 

[pdoel]

Yes, meaining we have no other god.

So, when God tells us he is the first and the last, and there are no other Gods, he means "for us?"

I think that's taking quite the liberty with the written law. I think God is quite clear with that statement.

 

[pdoel]

If you use my comparison to a biological father in each of those, they come out all right.

Not true. "Luke, I am the first father, and the last, and there are no other fathers beside me."

That would mean, he is the only father in the world. That no other "fathers" are around.

Unless God just meant that there are some down the street, but no one directly beside him at that moment.

 

[Quiddity]

Yes, meaining we have no other god.

What the...
I can see how you interpreted the other ones Aqualung but that one clearly says he came first and will be last. And that he is THE ONLY GOD. How much clearer do you want it?

 

[Aqualung]

So, when God tells us he is the first and the last, and there are no other Gods, he means "for us?"

He was our first god, and he'll be our last. He is the alpha and the omega.

I think that's taking quite the liberty with the written law. I think God is quite clear with that statement.

As do I, yet we both seem to take different interpretations with that clearity.

 

[pdoel]

Why? No it's you who seems to be thinking that god is a liar. He specifically states in amos that he won't change anything without telling us through prophets.

Not at all. From what you are saying, none of us can trust what God tells us, the individual. We can only trust what God tells someone else.

What's stopping God from having a personal relationship with me, directing my life, and having plans for me to be a Prophet? That would mean that what I have come to know from my relationship of God would be correct, and you are telling a prophet that he is wrong, and not believing what God wants you to believe.

 

[pdoel]

He was our first god, and he'll be our last. He is the alpha and the omega.

As do I, yet we both seem to take different interpretations with that clearity.

That's not at all what God said. He did not say, "I am your first God, and I am your last."

He said, "I am the first, and I am the last. There are no other Gods."

Period.

He didn't whisper under his breath, "for you"

 

[Quiddity]

How exactly would God have to phrase it to let you guys know he is the only one? No others.

 

[Quiddity]

That's not at all what God said. He did not say, "I am your first God, and I am your last."

He said, "I am the first, and I am the last. There are no other Gods."

Period.

He didn't whisper under his breath, "for you"

Darn it pdoel. Stop beating me to the points I'm thinking of....

 

[SoyLeche]

Not true. "Luke, I am the first father, and the last, and there are no other fathers beside me."

That would mean, he is the only father in the world. That no other "fathers" are around.

Unless God just meant that there are some down the street, but no one directly beside him at that moment.

There is only one human being that has ever lived on the Earth that is your father. He can rightfully say that there are no other fathers - to you at least.

Anyway, these purpose of all of these scriptures is to tell people that they shouldn't be worshipping any other Gods. Zeus does not exist -- don't worship him. God has remained reletively quiet on where He comes from and who He associates with. All that Aqua and I have been talking about is extrapolation from a few statements by Joseph Smith - in which he was explaining what Paul meant in the verse that Aqua mentioned earlier. It is not cannonized LDS doctrine.

 

[pdoel]

Here's another point.

Aqualung, it bothers you that people have changed their opinions on things over the years. Pre-marital sex, divorce. I'm sure homosexuality and homosexual marriage can be grouped in there as well.

It bugs you that people have changed their religious view points, and that the ONLY time someone should change their viewpoint is when a prophet tells us to.

What about the Prophet Jesus Christ? Didn't He speak the word of God? What about what he told us?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSHALLEVER believith in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life."

With that in mind, what prophet told you to judge others for changing their views? As far as I'm concerned, Jesus is the greatest Prophet we have ever been given. I follow his word. I believe that Jesus loved all and could forgive all.

What business is it of any of ours if someone has pre-marital sex, or was divorced, or whatever? Who are we to judge?

 

[pdoel]

All that Aqua and I have been talking about is extrapolation from a few statements by Joseph Smith - in which he was explaining what Paul meant in the verse that Aqua mentioned earlier. It is not cannonized LDS doctrine.

Ahhh, well that explains it. I believe Joseph Smith to be a false prophet (no offense). I see him being exactly what this thread is against. Someone who changed beliefs with no direction from God. In my opinion, God's word no longer applied to Joseph Smith's life and he wanted to change religion "to keep with the times" so that's what he did. I do not see him as being an actual prophet unto the Lord.

 

[Quiddity]

How exactly would God have to phrase it to let you guys know he is the only one? No others.

Aqualung and SoyLeche, I'm curious of what would be clear to you both.

 

[Popeyesays]

I think if god had a prophet and that there was a true church, that would make it harder for religion to change. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

I also don't think that accepting change is taking things into our own hands. I see it as quite the opposite. For me, the only constant in the universe is change. I think people are taking religion in their own hands and are fighting that change. I think if people start accepting change, than the world would be more peaceful. And that includes letting religion change.

If God made a covenant with man once, why would it not need renewal from time to time?
I believe the purpose of revelation is to bring about the "Kingdom on Earth", but it is to give us directions and the tools how to do it ourselves.

The purpose of religion, in my faith, is to ensure an ever-advancing divine civilization. To ensure such a civilization is the purpose of man's creation.

Revelation must be expanded as mankind ever progresses. This does not end with the Prophet-Founder of my faith. Indeed, it will continue in the future through further revelation.

Regards,
Scott

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...What about the Prophet Jesus Christ? Didn't He speak the word of God? What about what he told us?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSHALLEVER believith in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life."...

I'm out of Frubals, and am a bit late to this party, but pdoel said it about as well as it could be said.

 

[pdoel]

I'm out of Frubals, and am a bit late to this party, but pdoel said it about as well as it could be said.

This thread isn't so much a party. More of a tragic comedy.

:biglaugh:

 

[Popeyesays]

Did Joseph Smith not call himself a Prophet? Did Joseph Smith not change the church from what it was before he came? You can call it a restoration to what was before, but it is still a change from what it was when Joseph Smith opened his mouth to speak.

Regards,
Scott