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Compressed Air Grid 'Battery'

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by sun rise, May 4, 2021.

  1. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    There is a LOT of work being done on eliminating fossil fuels from the electricity generation process. This is one example which is interesting. And the end of the article is spot on - we need different solutions to energy storage for differing circumstances.

    This Compressed Air Grid 'Battery' Is an Energy Storage Game Changer

    Extra energy from the grid runs an air compressor, and the compressed air is stored in the plant. Later, when energy is needed, the compressed air then runs a power-generating turbine. The facility also stores heat from the air to help smooth the turbine process later on.

    While the efficiency of similar systems has hovered around 40 to 50 percent, the new system from Hydrostor, a major global leader in building hydroelectric storage, reportedly reaches 60 percent, according to Quartz.
    ...
    The first of Hydrostor’s two plants is set to open in 2026, and the company says its system will last for about 50 years—making it a lot longer-lived than almost any energy storage of its kind. The near future of energy is likely made of a dozen different solutions that are all suited to different environments and situations, so adding compressed air to the portfolio simply makes sense.
     
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Soo....

    Where does the additional energy come from to compress the air sufficiently enough to produce adequate energy? The generators??, Also I'm sure the compressed air dosent last very long before it needs enough compression again.

    I don't see how 'extra' energy can ever be made in the first place. Did you ever see an electrical generator perform under load?

    I'll pass on the stock.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I expect that solar power is the source.

    As far as the technology goes, there are several companies working on it Gigawatt-scale compressed air: World’s largest non-hydro energy-storage projects announced | Recharge

    How long it lasts of course depends on the volume to be used and how much the air is compressed. It's basic engineering.

    Toronto-based Hydrostor is working with experienced US renewables developer Pattern Energy and French infrastructure investment giant Meridiam on the 500MW Rosamond project in Kern County, near Los Angeles, which would have a storage capacity of 4-6GWh.

    Have you ever seen a solar power installation "under load"? They are now cheap sources of energy, I believe the cheapest or close to it in many places.

    As far as investing goes, it's too new for me to try to pick a winner.
     
  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Let's say that your wind & solar generators are producing more
    power than can be used. If it's stored & can be recovered later,
    it's not wasted. How to save it? Compressed air stores energy,
    & can be used to generate power. This system uses underground
    storage, which cuts material costs. Crucial to improving efficiency
    is capturing the heat generated during compression, & using it
    during generation. I'm curious how this is achieved. The article
    didn't say anything about this.
     
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  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It's sad how "green energy" is so clearly the way the winds are shifting that it's undeniable, but so many want to refuse this to the point they'd let America fall behind the nations who are investing in the future.
     
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  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    For all the cleaning I've done with compressed air, especially around heat sinks with fan blades that get spun around, I'm perplexed energy from such a thing like compressed air isn't something I've thought of.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The air does not make extra energy. At times various renewable energy sources will make more energy than needed. That is the "extra energy". If there is no way to store that energy it goes to waste. Using this sort of set up they could save up to 60% of that extra energy.

    Not perfect but better than letting it go.
     
  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Maybe they will store the compressed gas in a gigantic vacuum sealed Thermos bottle, so it will not lose much heat for up to 48 hours. Possibly they can also keep some soup warm that way. Another possibility is to store the compressed gas near a nuclear power source, to keep it warm. It may even get warmer that way, raising the pressure -- giving them a break-even power source. They may also pump it down into a storage chamber closer to the Earth's mantle, to keep it warm there. Another idea is to put it into eggs and have momma birds sit on them.
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Another approach is to use the heat for some other process,
    rather than storing it. "Cogeneration" is more than a century old.
     
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  10. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that between 140,000 and 500,000 bird die colliding into wind turbine each year.
    The Realities of Bird and Bat Deaths by Wind Turbines | REVE News of the wind sector in Spain and in the world.


    My question is if they can avoid a tree, and tree limbs waving about in the wind, why can't they avoid the turbines?

    Now one may say because of the turning blade's. However most I've seen and I've seen many, the blade's turn slow. I actually passed hundreds last week north and south of Peoria Illinois.
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    The blade RPM is slow, but the tip speed is fast.
    Birds don't see'm coming at them from a right
    angle at over 100 mph.
     
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  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I was actually looking that up as you posted.

    How fast do wind turbines spin? The speed of the wind turbine depends on how fast the wind is blowing. Most wind turbines are turning at about 10 to 20 rpm. When wind speeds are around 12-15 mph the tip of the blades are turning at about 120 mph. At higher wind speeds the tips of the blades can get up to around 180 mph!

    How Fast Do Wind Turbines Spin? (Not As Slow As They Look) - DBLDKR
     
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  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That's quite a silly issue people brought up, because they'll mention that and ignore that lots of other things also kill birds.
    Bird–skyscraper collisions - Wikipedia
    U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service - Migratory Bird Program | Conserving America's Birds
    An Estimate of Avian Mortality at Communication Towers in the United States and Canada
    This was never an issue or thought of by many until people brought it up to prevent wind turbines from going up.
     
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  14. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Yeah cats kill way way more birds. Not to even mention outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species.

    Cats and Birds | American Bird Conservancy.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I came across this when I was gathering the links I used in my previous post:
    Do We Really Know That Cats Kill By The Billions? Not So Fast
    And, indeed, I saw some websites using that study to ask if cats should be killed off.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    There is a gas field near my home. When it is depleted, which is expected to be soon, it will become an air pressure storage. Plans exist for some years now.
     
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  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It's amazing to think those are mini-lions and tigers and cheetahs and cougars. And they'll show they think they're bigger than lions and some of the most utterly fearless animals out there. Not many at all would dare to take a swipe at a bear or an alligator. And, quite clearly, even when their claws are little those claws hurt and sting some of the largest critters out there.
    (Maybe you should bring a cat to your next rumble with @Wu Wei and send him running?)
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Wu Wei

    Wu Wei ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson

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    Ever see a kodiak run from a cat...you see black bears run....but they're just an appetizer to kodiak

    Note: alligators in the south try to attract cats........ and it ain't to make friends.....
     
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