Comparison of Christianity and Judaism

[Jayhawker Soule]

He also believes that he understands the Tanakh.

 

[metis]

The fact that I believe in the Tanakh, makes me Jewish.
However, I was right: the fact that I consider myself a Jew really bothers you.
And that proves that Judaism is not an universal religion

Oh, so you follow the 613 Laws? You keep kosher? You observe Shabbat (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)? Tell us, where do your kosher shopping, especially in your area of Sicily? Exactly how do you supposedly observe the Sabbath? Do you observe Yom Kippur? Passover as directed in Torah? Rosh Hashana? Have your son(s) circumcised? Use Jewish courts to decide on items questionable as mandated in Exodus?

 

[metis]

Honey, try to go to a Catholic Mass. You can take the communion; the priest gives it to everyone. He doesn't care whether you are a Catholic or not

That would be a violation of Catholic Canon Law. Not only are Catholics only allowed to take the Eucharist, they also must go to confession at least once a year.

 

[sojourner]

Thanks. Which of these claim that the gospels contain an accurate portrayal of the ideology of the presumed Jerusalem sect and its founder?

Or, to put it differently, how would you distinguish your literary Jesus from, for example, Micah, or for that matter, any of the layers of Isaiah.

Good question! Thanks! Will have to get back to you later on that. Can't sit in front of the laptop all day...

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh, so you follow the 613 Laws? You keep kosher? You observe Shabbat (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)? Tell us, where do your kosher shopping, especially in your area of Sicily? Exactly how do you supposedly observe the Sabbath? Do you observe Yom Kippur? Passover as directed in Torah? Rosh Hashana? Have your son(s) circumcised? Use Jewish courts to decide on items questionable as mandated in Exodus?

no please...this is really funny....
do you really think that eating a certain kind of food, having a cut penis, fasting an prayer, and other stuff are things that make you Jewish?


so Judaism is all about rites and traditions-, isn't it?
I thought that it was about Love, charity and altruism.

as Christ said: …21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.…

Now I understand why you Jews didn't recognize Jesus. Because you don't want to worship God in spirit and truth. That is, not through rites, but through altruistic actions

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, Momma would be wrong. Xtians are not Jews; Jews are not Xtians (unless they're Messianic Jews). Judaism is definitely not "a little part of Christianity." That's appropriation.

I could call myself "catholic," too, but it doesn't matter what I call myself; it matters what the church calls me. If I try to take communion in a Catholic church, guess what? The celebrant is going to say, "You're not Catholic. Here's a blessing and go sit down."

If you want to consider yourself Catholic, that would thrill me. It wouldn't bother me at all.

By the way...do not think of me. Think of your brothers Freemasons who operate in Italy. They will be in serious trouble in the Afterlife...definitely

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Good question! Thanks! Will have to get back to you later on that. Can't sit in front of the laptop all day...

Excellent.

My central problem with the OP is that it's an (inadvertent) invitation to No True Scotsman and tautology. As you must know, there is a broad and highly speculative spectrum of definitions for this 'Jesus' of yours. Tell us the core values of your preferred caricature and the attitude toward Torah of your preferred caricature and it will be far easier to answer the question posed in the OP - but only with regard to this preferred caricature.

 

[metis]

no please...this is really funny....
do you really think that eating a certain kind of food, having a cut penis, fasting an prayer, and other stuff are things that make you Jewish?


so Judaism is all about rites and traditions-, isn't it?
I thought that it was about Love, charity and altruism.

as Christ said: …21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.…

Now I understand why you Jews didn't recognize Jesus. Because you don't want to worship God in spirit and truth. That is, not through rites, but through altruistic actions

My Catholic wife says to remind you that Jesus was Jewish and observed these rituals you say are unimportant as did the apostles, and she's "impressed" with your uninformed posts, but not in a good way.

Secondly, obviously you didn't actually read the 613 Laws I linked you to because "altruism" is covered, as is love. Ever read the "Sermon on the Mount"? Classically Jewish.

So, for you to claim you're Jewish while you disregard what's actually written in Torah and Tanakh, and then you even distort Catholic Canon Law, this now makes you even more irrelevant to any serious conversation on this subject. Let me suggest you do your homework and then come back and post something that makes sense.

As far as the face-palm ( ) is concerned, could you be any more hypocritical, especially since your "theology" is so terribly flawed.

 

[metis]

Think of your brothers Freemasons who operate in Italy. They will be in serious trouble in the Afterlife...definitely

And Jesus said "Judge ye not or ye shall be judged...".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And Jesus said "Judge ye not or ye shall be judged...".

More correctly the author of gMt, writing perhaps half a century later, has Jesus saying this.

 

[outhouse]

2) I don't think Matthew was a Greek Proselyte. I think Matthew was a Judaic follower.


.

That's what a Proselyte is, a follower of Judaism.

 

[Estro Felino]

And Jesus said "Judge ye not or ye shall be judged...".

actually I want to be judged-

 

[outhouse]

1) I don't think Matthew was viewed as an "illegitimate spokesperson."

Here is one minor view.

The Gospel of Matthew: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary | Words on the Word



I find in the Gospel an author and audience intensely committed to their heritage in Judaism while struggling with those they believe to be its illegitimate spokespersons. On this reading, Matthew writes to Jewish Christians who, in addition to being part of their assemblies as believers in Jesus, are fighting to remain part of their local synagogue communities

Keener

3) I don't think Matthew's audience were proselytes. They were Jews living in the Greek world

With all the anti Semitism in the gospel, a true Jewish community would be outraged over the changes to Judaism he was trying to make.

But just so you know, many Proselytes considered themselves Jewish.




I think your using a very broad brush to paint with. Many Hellenist were considered Jewish simply by forswearing off all other deities. [Jewish encyclopedia]

I think were just getting into a Jewish definition debate. These were not oppressed Israelites, they were Hellenist perverting Judaism to meet their own cultural needs. Divorcing Judaism so they would not be labeled a trouble makers by the Romans after the temple fell.

 

[outhouse]

actually I want to be judged-

What are you doing in this thread?

Were trying to have a meaningful discussion.

We could care less what your personal opinion is, on topics you know nothing about.


If you have something constructive to add, please do.

 

[Estro Felino]

Secondly, obviously you didn't actually read the 613 Laws I linked you to because "altruism" is covered, as is love. Ever read the "Sermon on the Mount"? Classically Jewish.

well...I didn't read them in your link...because I can read them from my Bible.

So, for you to claim you're Jewish while you disregard what's actually written in Torah and Tanakh, and then you even distort Catholic Canon Law, this now makes you even more irrelevant to any serious conversation on this subject.

All right. I won't contradict you any more. I promise. By the way, you definitely misread me. I didn't mean to claim that I know what being Jewish means.
I certainly intended to make you understand what a Christian thinks about Judaism.
They think beautiful things: love, empathy...etc...
when Jews converted to Christianity they didn't stop being Jews.
That's what I meant.

I hope you'll forgive me if I said something wrong. Or something that hurt you.
bye

 

[metis]

More correctly the author of gMt, writing perhaps half a century later, has Jesus saying this.

Maybe Jesus said it, but then maybe he didn't. Either way, as Joseph Campbell was fond of saying, "the myth becomes the reality".

 

[metis]

well...I didn't read them in your link...because I can read them from my Bible.

All right. I won't contradict you any more. I promise. By the way, you definitely misread me. I didn't mean to claim that I know what being Jewish means.
I certainly intended to make you understand what a Christian thinks about Judaism.
They think beautiful things: love, empathy...etc...
when Jews converted to Christianity they didn't stop being Jews.
That's what I meant.

I hope you'll forgive me if I said something wrong. Or something that hurt you.
bye

Apology accepted. Of course I never make mistakes.

Shalom, and have a great weekend.

 

[sojourner]

Which of these claim that the gospels contain an accurate portrayal of the ideology of the presumed Jerusalem sect and its founder?

Or, to put it differently, how would you distinguish your literary Jesus from, for example, Micah, or for that matter, any of the layers of Isaiah.

I don't think any of them contain an historically accurate portrayal of the ideology of the Jerusalem sect. Mark may come the closest. The problem we're faced with here (and I understand the implications) is that the only pictures of Jesus we have are specific theological portrayals that speak to hellenic proselytes, Jews or converts. But I understand that we have what we have, and so we have to begin somewhere and take something as a baseline. I really was wondering just how much you all thought the Xy of the gospels has in common with modern Judaism, because it seems to me (and I haven't done any in-depth study of the subject -- just posed this as sort of a "knee-jerk" question) that modern Judaism is closer to what, say, Matthean Jesus had in mind, than is modern Xy.

 

[sojourner]

If you want to consider yourself Catholic, that would thrill me. It wouldn't bother me at all.

By the way...do not think of me. Think of your brothers Freemasons who operate in Italy. They will be in serious trouble in the Afterlife...definitely

but it would bother the church. And the church is the authority on all things Catholic.

They're not Freemasons. So your point is moot.

 

[sojourner]

many Proselytes considered themselves Jewish.

Hay consideres me a Catholic, too. And himself Jewish. There is a distinction, though. Proselytes are called "Judaizers" and are neither highly-regarded, nor accepted by Jews as Jews. And that's the important thing.

I find in the Gospel an author and audience intensely committed to their heritage in Judaism while struggling with those they believe to be its illegitimate spokespersons.

If Matthew were seen as an "illegitimate author," his work would have neither been preserved, circulated, nor canonized.