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Featured Comparing Catholic Beliefs with the Teachings of Jesus in Scripture

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Deeje, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Actually Zechariah 11:14-17 is more specific to Peter as indicated in John 21:15-16 & 18. Peter being the "worthless shepherd" who would not feed, care or tend the sheep, and as the second staff "Cords", he would be bound and taken where he didn't wish to go. That he had a "sword" in which to cut off ears, is another potato for the pot. That he left the "flock" to go to the Gentiles, is a carrot to add to the pot. The taking the equipment of a "foolish shepherd" seems to point more to Peter's supposed successor, the pope. I am not sure Peter would be carrying a shepherds staff, although he probably had the ego to do so.

    I am sure your years of indoctrination have made you feel you should be first, and the head of the class, but as Yeshua told Peter with respect to what was going to happen to Peter, he said the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.
     
  2. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Are there others who share this distorted view? I've never heard such things before in my life, and I've been talking to Christians across the world for over 10 years!

    Surely you must be alone in this belief.

    ...How do reconcile Matthew 16:18..?
    "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If you cared to read Matthew 16:17, and had ears to hear, and knew the actual "rock", the sanctuary of God is built on, you wouldn't be having a problem. The "cornerstone", a "tested stone" (Isaiah 28:16), is not Peter. As for who believes that Judas Iscariot is one of the three shepherds, who were killed in the same month/generation, try reading Matthew 27:9-10, which quotes Zechariah 11:12-13 with respect to Judas Iscariot. It is that rock, cut without hands, which will crush the nations of Daniel 2:35 & 44-5, not Peter, and his following Constantine, and conquering under the sign of the pagan cross, as specified by Sol Invictus in 312 A.D.. If you read John 21:15-16 & 19, you would see that the author of John apparently also knew who Zechariah 11:15-17 was referring too. If you were familiar with the Protestant beliefs, you would know that they, for the most part, do not agree with your position either. They think that Matthew 16:16 is the "rock" the church is built on. As for the Roman church and her daughters, all daughters of Babylon, they are heading for a "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27). From the parable of the "fig tree", that time seems to be "right at the door" (Matthew 24:33). At that time all the goats, rams, and sheep will be judged. (Ezekiel 34:17).
     
  4. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    You are wrong.

    In Matthew 16, Jesus Christ blesses Simon Peter, and tells him that his faith comes from the Father in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    ...I won't waste anymore time debating this with you. Good luck, Sir, on your journey.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Actually the early Christians did. They had the Hebrew Scriptures that Jesus and the apostles used to teach about the role of the Messiah and first century Christians had the letters written by Peter, Paul, John and others to guide them. These were used and circulated among the congregations long before the Roman church was established.

    If you recall, it was because the church took the scriptures away from the common people that they held sway over an ignorant population by feeding them things that were not scriptural. For centuries the people had no way to check the authenticity of what they were being taught. It is very easy to control an ignorant population. Only with the Reformation was the Bible translated and given to everyone. We have Luther to thank for speaking up and exposing the corruption in the church.

    Is that what they told you? Would you like a list? It's a long one.
    The Pharisees did exactly the same thing, they also expanded and clarified doctrines that ended up teaching the opposite of what their scriptures said. The Bible doesn't need that kind of clarification....it explains itself.

    The Bible is full of such comparisons. Everything in the Bible is pictorial. Jesus used the flood of Noah's day to picture the world situation when he would return....we are there now. Christendom is a mirror image of the Pharisees. Satan's tactic are the same...he has no new weapons...he doesn't need any, the old ones still work.

    Since the law given to Israel was not to even "MAKE" an image of "ANYTHING" to be used in worship, it is apparent who is being dishonest. (Exodus 20:3) You can't bow before something you never made.

    The "genuflecting" is making the sign of the cross....a religious symbol that pre-dates Christianity, and is tied up with disgusting pagan practices. There is no cross in the Bible. Constantine borrowed it along with many other pagan ideas that he "Christianized".

    If Jesus had been hanged instead of being nailed to a stake, would Catholics have a gallows with Jesus swinging from the end of a rope set up in their churches? Does it not strike you as bizarre that you would make a replica of the instrument used to put someone you love to death, and glorify it? What if Jesus had been shot with a gun? Would you wear one around your neck? o_O

    Rosary beads have no precedent in Christianity or Judaism for that matter. According to Wiki..."dating from the 17th c. BC (c. 1613 BC.) The exact origins of prayer beads remain uncertain, but their earliest historical use probably traces to Hindu prayers in India. Buddhism probably borrowed the concept from Hinduism." Guess who borrowed them from false religious practices?

    There is a long list of other "borrowed" things that have no place in Christianity. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

    The truth is sometimes confronting. Jesus was "rude" to the Pharisees because he saw no need to water down the truth to preserve their feelings. It was why they hated him so much. They didn't like the truth.

    Not a word of scripture was written by anyone but Jews. Those who later compiled it when God was ready to have it consolidated, is inconsequential. It is God's word, not the church's. It is interesting that God's word is the very thing that condemns Christendom the most.

    I already did. Try 2 John 9. Those who fail to stay within the teachings of the Christ have lost not only him, but also his Father. (Matthew 7:21-23)

    The ones I already mentioned that you said were taken out of context.

    Hang on....the principle is the same....we are to obey God in all things. Those who teach us to disobey him will be held accountable.
    If God's law was "thou shalt not murder" and the church was responsible for not only murdering, but torturing innocent people into forced confessions just to justify their disgraceful actions.....and the modern clergy support their nations in shedding innocent blood when the military drop bombs and kill women and children.
    The context does not alter the principle. Failure to obey God, resulting in bloodshed, ensures that the perpetrators will be held to account.
     
    #125 Deeje, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The apostles were promised a priesthood...but not on earth. Jesus was going to be the High Priest, but not until he was in heaven. There was no earthly priesthood....no earthly temples...no alters....no ritualistic worship or repetitive prayers.....no incense....that was all based on the Jewish system that was no longer valid once Christ came and fulfilled the role of Messiah. The kingdom is in heaven and the chosen kings and priests will rule over redeemed mankind from a heavenly temple, not an earthly one. (Revelation 20:6)

    There was no infant baptism, no monasteries, no vows of silence, no purgatory, no trinity, no immortal soul, no hell of eternal torment, and no nuns either.

    Hebrews 8:1-2..."Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man." (NASB)

    Peter was given certain responsibilities because he was a man of faith whom Jesus trusted to carry out his instructions. But none of the apostles were in any way of more importance than the others. The foundations of the Kingdom were the Twelve Apostles, not just Peter. (Revelation 21:14)

    It was always God's purpose for non-Jews to enjoy the benefits of the kingdom, but to honor his promise to Abraham, he offered all the first positions in the kingdom to his descendants. Peter was instructed to go to the home of Cornelius and to bestow holy spirit upon him, the first Gentile to receive holy spirit before baptism. Peter was never placed in a position above the other apostles. The role of "Bishop" in Catholicism is nothing like the role they played in the early church.

    Positions that carried titles were unknown to the first Christians. They did not wear distinctive clothing, nor were they honored with titles such as is common in the church.

    Why call a Roman Catholic bishop..... “His Excellency, the Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Monsignor.” as they do in Italy?

    Or a Cardinal..... “His Eminence.”

    Or the pope: “Most Holy Father.”

    Jesus said to 'call no man your Father on earth'. (Matthew 23:9)

    Matthew 23:11-12...."But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted." (NASB)

    A minister is a servant, so no title is appropriate. This applies to Protestantism as well.

    The weeds were sown "while men were sleeping" which is either when the apostles died and were "sleeping in death", or the time when the men of the church went to sleep spiritually.....either way, it didn't happen recently. The early church, after the death of the apostles was wide open to the apostates who were already posing a threat whilst the apostles were still alive. Once they were 'out of the way' the church fell into division and squabbling.

    Yes, this is the approach that Jesus took. He did not set up charities to give hand outs to the poor. He told his disciples that like his illustration of the Good Samaritan, we are to render assistance to those we encounter if they need it. In Israel, the poor were given the dignity of work. Included in the law were the gleaning rules where the poor could harvest grain and earn their own food.
    Paul wrote..."For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

    Charities today are businesses with the fat cats at the top creaming off the bulk of donated funds in "administration" costs. If it were a real charity, they would all be volunteers.

    They don't need to look further than history. The church degraded itself, both then and now.
     
    #126 Deeje, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Landon Caeli, post: 5917133, member: 64198"]You are wrong.

    In Matthew 16
    , Jesus Christ blesses Simon Peter, and tells him that his faith comes from the Father in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    ...I won't waste anymore time debating this with you. Good luck, Sir, on your journey.[/QUOTE]

    You misquoted Matthew 16:16 which is the supposed rock of the Protestants . The rock is the Spirit of Revelation ,per Matthew 16:17.

    New American Standard Bible Matthew 16:16
    Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
     
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Then let us hope that the mentally unstable tares who, despise the faithful apostles of Christ and twist and distort scripture out of all recognition, find a good rock to hide under.
     
  9. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    No, the letters written by Peter, Paul, John and others were not "circulated among the congregations"... Please stop making things up.

    ...The letters were locked up along with all the other letters that the Roman Church discarded and rejected from including in the scriptures. Please get your facts straight.

    The Council of Toulouse was a local council set up to deal with the Albigensian/Manichean heresy in southern France where re-scripted bibles, produced by Muslim Moors, with defective translations contained false information. All bibles were ordered to be turned in and were burned to protect the integrity of the scriptures.

    Later on, a similar scenario occurred, where the integrity of the bible was once again being compromised by unqualified people re-translating, and re-printing the bible... Again, the bibles were taken and protected for integrity purposes.

    ...Honestly, you have a lot to thank the Catholic Church for. If not for the Church doing what she did, there would me multitudes of bibles circulating, and nobody wod know the true word. It was never to "control an ignorant population" as you falsely claim.


    Yes, thanks to the Catholic Church, you do have a bible that is authentically accurate. As far as teaching the opposite, you just don't interpret the bible correctly, which is why you are mistaken.

    If Christendom is a mirror image of the Pharisees, then you can show us how.

    This is a prime example of why you do not understand the bible properly. Because if what you say is true, then why did GOD Himself command idolatry by giving instructions on making graven cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, just to give one example?

    ...Did God contradict himself? Or does JW not understand?

    download.jpeg.jpg


    Then why does scripture say that it was a cross? Do you reject certain scriptures but not others?
    What Does the Bible Say About Cross?


    We honor the sacrifice of Christ. I'm sorry that JW's are proud and not humble.

    Says the JW's who refuse even life saving medical treatments based on radical literal interpretations of scripture.

    Clearly JW cannot understand the concept of Prudential judgement. Also, science and education must also be evil, in your opinion, since they did not come from scripture.

    Again, this shows the JW inability to interpret scriptures. For you are not Jesus Christ, the only son of God the Father.


    Yes, but only based on the JW's faulty interpretations of Holy Scriptures.

    Spoken as the JW Church molests THOUSANDS of children... According to your own standards, the Jehovah's Witness Church is itself an abomination filled with disgrace, and will be held accountable.

    Jehovah's Witnesses Church 'did not report more than 1,000 allegations of child sex abuse'
    Church 'did not report more than 1,000 allegations of child sex abuse'
     
    #129 Landon Caeli, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  10. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Matthew 7:5
    You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ild-abuse-report-says/?utm_term=.01dc9a230a1b

    Montana Jehovah's Witness sex abuse case underscores church's worldwide reckoning
     
    #130 Landon Caeli, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your 2 Peter 3:16 reference, with regard to distortion, is generally accepted to be written by some unknown author, who was not Peter, and who made a fraudulent claim as to who wrote that epistle. Your foundation of sand simply gets less stable with every minute.
     
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  12. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    LOL, so in other words, the scriptures are fraudulent in your opinion. Yet you frequently cite them to further your agenda. Hilarious.
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "sons of Levi" will be refined "so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness" (Malachi 3:3). The "kingdom of heaven" is "at hand". The kingdom to come, is "right at the door" (Matthew 24:33), and will be ruled from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16). The millennium reign, will be one on earth (Revelation 20:6) & (Revelation 19:15). The coming of the "son of man" is yet future (Matthew 24:30).

    The NT canon is the product of a daughter of Babylon, the Roman church. The NT contains both the tare seed, mixed with the "wheat seed" (Matthew 13). One must winnow the good from the bad. One must eat the unleavened bread, that which is without the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. As for 2 Peter 3:16, it is deemed by most scholars to be not written by Peter: Sorry if the truth hurts the edifice you have built on sand (Matthew 7:24-27).

    Most critical biblical scholars have concluded Peter is not the author, considering the epistle pseudepigraphical.[1][2] Second Epistle of Peter - Wikipedia
     
  14. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    LOL, it does not hurt. :)
    Sorry, you'll have to excuse me, but I don't trust anything you say on the subject. Please forgive me.

    ...How can I after all, when you're opinion is that only parts of the NT are correct... And who knows what parts those are aside from what you say they are.
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Let me clarify a few things.

    We do have our facts straight. The Catholic church was not even in existence until the fourth century. How do you think Christianity flourished in the first century? The letters of the apostles were widely circulated before the church got its hands on them. Once the apostles were "sleeping" the weeds were sprouting all over the place.

    Do you think that God had nothing to do with the writing and preservation of his own instruction manual? As I said...whom he uses to accomplish his will is irrelevant. He wanted to get his word out of the dark dungeon where Catholicism had hidden it, and give it to the common people. He did it in spite of them, not because of them.

    Keeping the masses in ignorance was not the reason why their Mass was kept in a dead language for so long then? :shrug:
    Catholic people had no way to know if what the church taught them was the truth....for 1500 years!

    I heard a Catholic priests say once..."give me a child till they are 7 and you will have a Catholic for the rest of their lives". A rather sick parody of Aristotle's quote.

    No thanks to the Catholic church for including apocryphal writings that have no place in God's word. Authentically accurate....? I don't think so. The apocryphal books are not in harmony with the rest of the Bible at all.

    Where do I start?

    They have rejected the Messiah as the "Son of God" by turning him into "God the Son". (John 14:28) An expression that is not found in any scripture.
    The Pharisees rejected the Messiah by claiming that he said he was God....which he never did. (John 10:31-36) Either way, the true Messiah is rejected because of misinterpretation of scripture.

    The church openly supports the nations of this world when Jesus told them to be "no part" of it. (John 18:36) At every political memorial glorifying war, there are the clergy hand in glove with the world. (James 4:4) Their chaplains have blessed the weapons that were going to kill innocent people. (Isaiah 1:15) If chaplains in the military were doing their job, all the soldiers would be "turning their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears". (Isaiah 2:2-4) If the priests were following Jesus they would have told their members to put down their weapons. (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)

    In the days when The League of Nations was recovering from its complete failure to prevent WW1, the churches had pointed to this man-made institution as "the political expression of God's Kingdom on earth"......completely ignoring the role of God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. They were told to preach the "good news of God's Kingdom" but they put their faith in man's kingdom instead. (Matthew 24:14)

    What is wrong with these pictures in light of Matthew 5:43-45?

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The Pharisees had made a nice little political niche for themselves in the first century too. Rome was there to facilitate the death of Christ at their request.

    At John 11:47-48, the Pharisees made it clear what was of prime concern to them....'their place and their nation'.

    Jesus gave examples of their hypocrisy, saying: They broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards.” (Matthew 23:5-7) Some Jews wore on their forehead and on their arm, these relatively small cases containing short passages from the Law. The Pharisees enlarged theirs to give the impression that they were zealous about the Law. Also, they “lengthen the fringes of their garments.” The Israelites were to make fringes on their garments, but the Pharisees made sure that their fringes were quite long. (Numbers 15:38-40) They did that “to be seen by men.” (Matthew 23:5)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    What about the clergy of the church?

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The Catholic clergy like to make a display of their garments, whereas Jesus was not identifiable by his clothing. He dressed like everyone else. Judas had to betray him with a kiss.
     
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Are you serious? Do you understand that God's word forbids idolatry? (Exodus 20:4-5)

    [​IMG]

    God's command to build the Ark of the Covenant was not to display it for the adoration of man, but to seal it away in the Most Holy compartment of the tabernacle/ temple where no man could see it except the High Priest, once a year. The contents of the Ark were articles that symbolized God power to preserve and guide his people. Above the Ark was the Shekhi·nahʹ Light, where God communicated with Moses.

    Even when the Ark was being transported, it was covered by sealskin cloths so that no man could see it. (Numbers 4:5-6)

    Are you aware that the Greek word for cross in all those scriptures is "stauros" (a stake) or "Xylon" (a tree)?

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=phil+2:8&version=MOUNCE

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+5:30&version=MOUNCE

    Regarding the meaning of stau·rosʹ, W. E. Vine, in his work An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (1966 reprint), Vol. I, p. 256, states: “STAUROS (σταυρός) denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroō, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.”

    Can you tell me why the Catholic church cannot honor Christ's sacrifice without including pagan dates, symbols and practices?
    Are you aware of where the festival of Easter comes from? Will I find Easter in the Bible? Will I find rabbits and eggs either? Do you know why not?
    Christmas and Easter are the two biggest celebrations in Christendom.....but neither of them have anything to do with Jesus Christ.

    Please do some research. Information is freely available on the net.

    The laws on the consumption of blood were very literal.

    Please see... Thoughts on the Fall of Adam


    What is "prudential judgment"? ......"Sometimes morally flawed laws already exist. In this situation, the process of framing legislation to protect life is subject to prudential judgment and “the art of the possible.” At times this process may restore justice only partially or gradually. … 33. Prudential judgment is also needed in applying moral principles to specific policy choices in areas such as the war in Iraq, housing, health care, immigration, and others. . . .
    the Church’s guidance on these matters is an essential resource for Catholics as they determine whether their own moral judgments are consistent with the Gospel and with Catholic teaching."

    Prudential Judgment 101: A Theological Roundtable | Catholic Moral Theology

    What "morally flawed laws" can be of concern to Christians who are told to be "no part" of this world. So if "specific policy choices" are political, they are none of a Christian's business....any more than Roman politics was of concern to Jesus or his followers. All we need to be is law-abiding citizens of whatever nation we occupy....but politically neutral. Why? Because the ruler of this world is not Jesus....yet. (1 John 5:19)

    Neither is the Catholic church, but you'd never know it the way they view the Pope. Have you ever undertaken a history of the Popes? They were a very corrupt lot, carried away entirely with their own power. If you want to follow the lead of those with such an appalling history, that is entirely up to you.

    How do you know that your own church is not the one that has misinterpreted scriptures for centuries? A careful study of those scriptures will reveal who has twisted them.

    1,000 cases in 60 years? We got away lightly compared to the number of allegations made against the Catholic clergy going back, who knows how long? (God knows)

    Catholic Church sex abuse cases by country - Wikipedia

    Is this a case of those who live in glass houses throwing stones? :( No institution with access to children is immune from these predators....not the Boy Scouts or even sporting teams. It is a crime with no witnesses and in the past, child sexual abuse was not seen as very serious, even by the court system. But as mounting evidence of its impact on victims accumulated, it began to be treated with the seriousness it deserves. No longer do children have to face their abusers in court and there are other ways to incriminate those whose crimes were never witnessed, and whose victims were terrorized in to silence. We take the issue very seriously.
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the "wicked", the product of the "tare seed" (Matthew 13:25), will not understand the "word of the kingdom" (Matthew 13:19), the good seed, which is conveyed in the testimony of Yeshua (Matthew 13:13) & (Daniel 12:10) & (Isaiah 6:9-10), which is the Spirit of Revelation (19:10), and is the rock the "church" is built on. The tare seed, the seed producing the wicked/lawless/sinners, the false gospel of grace, by the false prophet Paul, produces "rotten fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20). The churches of the tare seed, are on their way to "fall" (Matthew 7:27). Their poor handling of children may be the last straw on the camels back, with respect to the people who contribute to the support of that church. The parishioners appear as lost as ever, but a good majority still appear to have a sense of smell.
     
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  18. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    ...Now I will begin picking your arguments apart, piece by piece, one at a time, before moving on, for more in-depth understanding.

    How do you now explain 1 Kings 6:29..?
    "He carved all the walls of the Temple round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers within and without."

    A cherubim, is an angelic being... Now here we see God allowing cherubim to be carved in plain view on the temple walls.

    Was God contradicting Himself in allowing one of his prophets to construct the temple in this fashion?

    The following is a cherubim:
    cherubim-hp-1.jpg
     
    #138 Landon Caeli, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  19. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    1 Kings 3:5-10
    In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream at night. God said: Whatever you ask I shall give you.6Solomon answered: “You have shown great kindness to your servant, David my father, because he walked before you with fidelity, justice, and an upright heart; and you have continued this great kindness toward him today, giving him a son to sit upon his throne.7Now, LORD, my God, you have made me, your servant, king to succeed David my father; but I am a mere youth, not knowing at all how to act—8I, your servant, among the people you have chosen, a people so vast that it cannot be numbered or counted.9Give your servant, therefore, a listening heart to judge your people and to distinguish between good and evil. For who is able to give judgment for this vast people of yours?” 10The Lord was pleased by Solomon’s request.

    illustration-solomons-temple-detail_edited-1.jpg
    Cherubim 1.jpg
     
    #139 Landon Caeli, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    This is a good thing.....in-depth understanding is beneficial for every worshippers of the true God.

    In reading the entire chapter, we see that everything Solomon did in building the temple, was at God's explicit instructions. The exact measurements were given, the materials to be used, and what was to be included.

    None of what he asked Solomon to make was idolatrous. The walls were decorated with palm trees and flowers along with the cherubs.

    The picture you provided with the Catholic version of a cherub is somewhat ridiculous. Why is it feminine? Do you imagine cherubs to be like weak wimpy women? Cherubs are powerful spirit beings who have no physical form unless they materialise. They have a high rank among God's angelic servants and are pictured in guardianship positions. So the cherubs in the Most Holy compartment of the temple must have been made at God's instruction.....they were never seen by anyone but the high priest. Decorations on the walls were just that.....not part of Israel's worship.

    Israel fell to idolatry on several occasions, and God punished them for it. For some reason, humans need to see some physical representation of God to facilitate their worship....but in Israel, God never permitted it.
     
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