1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Commentary on Why Does the Bible Describe God in Human Terms?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by iris89, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Commentary on Why Does the Bible Describe God in Human Terms?

    Since "God is a Spirit," we cannot see him with our physical eyes. (John 4:24) Ihe Bible therefore uses figures of speech, such as similes, metaphors, and anthropomorphisms to help US comprehend God's might, majesty, and activities. Anthropomorphisms (Greek, "manform") is the attributing of human characteristics to a nonhuman subject. So even though we do not know what God's spirit body looks like, the Bible speaks of God as having eyes, ears, hands, arms, fingers, feet, and a heart.-Genesis 8:21; Exodus 3:20; 31:18; Job 40:9; psalm 18:9; 34:15.

    Such descriptive language does not mean that God's spirit body has the same kind of members that human bodies have. Anthropomorphisms are not to be taken literally. They merely help humans to have a better understanding of God. Without such figures of speech, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for any description of God to be comprehensible to mere humans. However, that does not mean that Jehovah God's personality has been fabricated by humans. The Bible clearly explains that man was created in God's image -not God in man's image. (Genesis 1 :27) Because Bible writers were inspired of God," their depiction of God's personality is in reality his own description of his personal qualities-the very qualities that he has implanted to varying degrees in his human creation per 2 Timothy 3:16, 17, " 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."(Rothrham Bible Translation; RBT). Rather than being man's qualities In God, they are really God's qualities in man.

    As you read the Bible, you can learn how to make God rejoice.

     
  2. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    G-d is described in human terms because we are attempting to grapple with the infinite using our finite minds and vocabulary.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone

    One poster forgets these facts, that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.
    To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  4. phaedo

    phaedo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2
    Ratings:
    +0
    It has been said that God speaks in parables. When talking about eyes, ears and hands ect, doesn't actually depict a physical. Our minds, as humans, are so small that it seems the ignorant - seeing as our history points to paganism - want to view God as a physical form, particularily our physical form because that is more easier to comprehend. But, as Saint Thomas Aquinas, Imam Ali and many other prophets or highly spiritual men and woman have said, God is infinite and to place finite form is only to support our small minds, because in reality, our minds cannot grasp His Magnificence. You also have to understand that words like Lord and Son and Father and other such things too were used as parables - whereas most people have taken them literally (Not to God, the Almighty who is of course our Lord, Soverign Lord of the Universe). That judgement needs to be done by the individual's research and faith, and not the religion that you were raised with (which essentially means the religion you feel most comfortable with). I'm not saying you, but if I was raised in a family of Scientologists (Thank God that I wasn't), I would presume that to be the most righteous, but as I say, Scientology is foul and not righteous which means I essentially don't really have faith but follow what I'm comfortable with. Hence racism, discrimination and other such attributes that follow ignorant comforts.
     
  5. phaedo

    phaedo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2
    Ratings:
    +0
    And by the way Iris, only someone who had no faith would believe that the Bible is the only book. Why don't you read some more about the True Faith (which obviously includes the Qur'an) and then write.
     
  6. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi phaedo

    FIRST, The Bible is the only book that God (YHWH) ever caused divinely inspired men to write, go back and read my second post and learn.

    SECOND, The Quran (Koran) is just one of the knockoffs, i.e., plagirized from the Bible books. Go read my following articles and learn the facts in line with John 8:32, "And you shall know the truth: and the truth shall make you free." (Douay Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).
    Discourse on the Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?p=46520#46520

    and,

    Muslims Do Not Comprehend The Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5096

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Whoa Iris... you FINALLY said something that I can agree with.

    John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
     
  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    That's a pretty bold statement to be making iris89. Now are you talking about the Torah, the Tanach or the the Christian bible which includes the Gospels? And if you are including the Gospels, at what point were the Gospels "inspired" by G-d. If we are to take them at face value they are no more than accounts of the life of a first century palestinian jew who was executed.
     
  9. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone

    FIRST, The Torah is the first five books, mostly written by Moses of the Bible, not the Bible, but only a part thereof.

    SECOND, The complete Bible consist of the so called old testament or Hebrew testament and the new testament or Greek testament.

    THIRD, You need to read the foreword in The Complete Jewish Bible - Copyright 1998 by David H. Stern. Published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. and you will see exactly constitutes the complete Bible. Or check the foreword to the American Standard Version and/or the foreword to the New English Bible.

    FOURTH, All need to read the following, the first link is to a writing of others and the remainder are links to items I have written to assist all:

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibletru.html

    And,

    Documentary on Our Savior Jesus (Yeshua):

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=74.topic

    and;

    When God's (YHWH's) Kingdom Starts Rulling:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204

    and,

    Discourse on the Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?p=46520#46520

    and,

    Muslims Do Not Comprehend The Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5096

    and,

    Let's Have Reality in Translation:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=207

    and,

    Discourse on the Whether Christ is Divine:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190

    and,
    Civilization and the Bible

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5075

    and,

    STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5076


    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  10. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    i believe your talking about the Christian bible, since jews don't typically follow the gospels.
    you're giving me a website to messianic jews:sarcastic I don't mean to offend any messianic jews out there but you might as well call yourselves christians and stop confusing people.
    I'm sure you meant to add... "in my opinion"
     
  11. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi jewscout

    Most Jews, Orthodox, only use the old or Hebrew testament of the complete Bible; however, some use the entire Bible. I am talking of the entire Bible and this would be readily apparent to you if you had gone and read the foreword in
    The Complete Jewish Bible - Copyright 1998 by David H. Stern. Published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. as I had recommended.

    Also, I did not mean to say in my opinion as I am posting fact as you would clearly know if you went to either the foreword in
    The Complete Jewish Bible - Copyright 1998 by David H. Stern. Published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. as I had recommended, or to the links I provided to assist you.

    There is no such thing as a Jewish or Christian Bible, the complete Bible is the word of God (YHWH) written by faithful men under divine inspiration as scribes who put the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men so we could understand. He did NOT intend the Bible and/or parts of it to be just for any particular group; God (YHWH) created all and cares for all. Did you not read Matthew 22:36-40, ""Rabbi, which of the mitzvot in the Torah is the most important?" 37 He told him, "`You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.' 38 This is the greatest and most important mitzvah. 39 And a second is similar to it, `You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot." (
    The Complete Jewish Bible - Copyright 1998 by David H. Stern. Published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.)?

    You should check out the following link to the Messiahite Community and read some of Uriah's post.

    http://p075.ezboard.com/bthemessiahitecommunity

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89

     
  12. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi jewscout

    I am referring to all the divinely inspired books that God (YHWH) used faithful men as scribes to put his thoughts into the words of men. That would clearly include all of the divinely inspired old or Hebrew testament and all of the divinely inspired new or Koine Greek testament, but of course NOT the Apocrypha which is NOT divinely inspired.

    My good friend Rabbi Freedman of the Jewish voice would strongly disagree with your statement,
    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  13. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,673
    Ratings:
    +29
    It must be remembered that GOD invented eyes, ears, nose, mouth, hands, feet, etc.., as well as feelings, moods, and time.
     
  14. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi LittleNipper

    This thread is about why God (YHWH) is described in human terms, NOT that he is human.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  15. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    That scripture from John is misleading. The first thing you need to understand is that the word "a" used between "is" and "spirit" does not exist in the Greek language. If I translated it "God is spirit," there's not a linguist in the world who could tell me I was wrong. The translation we use for John was very heavily influenced by neoplatonic thought, hence the swaying toward "a spirit." But notice an interesting correlation. If you deem it impossible for God to have a body since He is "spirit," or "a spirit" then you conclude that that which is spirit cannot have a body. Let us travel to John 3:6 and ask the question, who is born of the spirit? Are the believers born of the spirit? If so then they are spirit, as is God according to your scripture. The Greek is identical in these two instances. The conclusion is obvious: spirit can have a body, as those born of the spirit are spirit and have bodies. God can then have a body. We are made in His image. His body is mentioned several times throughout the scriptures, void of any accompanying explanation that it is just figurative. The explanations used to deny God of a body are extrascriptural and fall into the category of philosophies based on the Catholic-platonic doctrines of the early church. They are untrue. God indeed has a body and can be seen by us when we are properly conditioned by the spirit.
     
  16. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,746
    Ratings:
    +607
    "They merely help humans to have a better understanding of God."

    Actually I believe the opposite. I think it give a horrible misrepresentation of what god actually is, and therefore deters us from a "better understanding" of god.

    I also therefore believe that ALL words are finite and created solely by man. No matter how divinely inspired, they are still finite words. And to make it worse, they were written by finite men. So to say that the bible give us any understanding of god would be completely illogical. It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Sure the finger may be pointing in the right direction, but stop focusing on the finger. Focus on the moon. (If you haven't realized, the finger would be representing words, ideas, and BOOKS).
     
  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,018
    Religion:
    Judaism
    That's silly. By the way, do you understand the difference between reasoned debate and pedantic preaching?
     
  18. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    Morning Deut.
     
  19. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone



    I think all are drifting from what I said in my original post.



    FIRST, the scriptures clearly show that God (YHWH) is a spirit and hence not visible to human eyes at John 1:18, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]." (American Standard Version; ASV); and this is just a restatement of what is found at Exodus 33:20, "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live." (ASV).



    SECOND, with respect John 3:16, I have written a short article incorporating this scripture in such a way as to permit all to gain an understanding of it:



    "John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, even so he has given to the Son also to have life in himself; (Confraternity Edition of The New Testament; CETNT)





    Here the scripture clearly shows that Jesus' (Yeshua's) Father, Almighty God (YHWH) has given him eternal life after he proved his faithfulness as testified to at Romans 5:21, "That as sin hath regned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); And at Hebrews 5:9, shows after he was given eternal life, he prepared the way for us, "and when perfected, he became to all who obey him the cause of eternal salvation." (CETNT); In other words, he will deliver all obedient mankind from sin as shown at 1 John 2:2, "and he is a propitiation for our sins, not for ours only but also for those of the whole world." (CETNT). In fact, John 3:16 shows, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting." (CETNT). Jesus (Yeshua) said at John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. 28 And I give them everlasting life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand." (CETNT).





    In fact, Jesus (Yeshua) and his Father (YHWH) whose right hand side he, Jesus (Yeshua) is on work together, now, to accomplish all things as testified to by Jesus (Yeshua) at John 10:38, "But if I do perform them, and if you are not willing to believe me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father." (CETNT); This he told the Jews at John 10:34-36, "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, I said you are gods? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God was addressed (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of him whom the Father has made holy and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" (CETNT); And 1 John 2:22 shows, "Clearly 1 John 2:22 shows these to be the Anti-christ, "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is the Anti-christ who denies the Father and the Son." (CETNT).





    Really most mainstream religions show by their false doctrines of the Duality and the Trinity, they are in effect denying that Jesus (Yeshua) is as the Bible states at Matthew 14:33, "And they that were in the boat came and adored him, saying: Indeed thou art the Son of God." (CETNT); And at, many other places in the Bible it likewise testifies to the fact that Christ Jesus (Yeshua), the Messiah, is the Son of God; whereas, these myth believers claim that he, Jesus (Yeshua) is God (YHWH) himself, thereby making themselves part of the Anti-crist since by so doing they are clearly denying the Father, Almighty God (YHWH) as a distinct individual per 1 John 2:22, quoted above. Simple, hard for many to believe, but that is just how it is, reality often is hard to believe. In the 15 th century the Catholic church was even burning individuals at the stake for challenging their myth that the sun revolved around the earth with reality that the earth revolved around the sun, hard to believe also, but true nevertheless."

    THIRD, with respect the Torah, it is defined as:

    SYLLABICATION:To·rahPRONUNCIATION: tôr, tr, toir, tô-räVARIANT FORMS:also to·rahNOUN:Judaism 1. The first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures. See table at Bible. 2. A scroll of parchment containing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures, used in a synagogue during services. 3. The entire body of religious law and learning including both sacred literature and oral tradition. [source - American Heritage Dictionary, 4 edition]





    FOURTH, I do not debate, I discuss. In my opinion debating is utter nonsense as debaters are only interested in a contest and not learning. Unfortunately some of my post were moved from the discussion form to debating form where they do not belong, and as I said I have no intention of debating, I am an independent researcher, not a debater.



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89

     
  20. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,018
    Religion:
    Judaism
    In fact, I owe you an apology. You mentioned previously that your post was moved and I totally forgot about it. You certainly can't be faulted for the actions of the moderator(s)/administrator.

    So, discuss with me the specific independent research that convinces you of the historicity of Moses and his authorship of the Torah, and why we might consider that research valid.
     
Loading...