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Commentary on Revelation 19:12

Discussion in 'Christianity in General DIR' started by iris89, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Commentary on Revelation 19:12

    Revelation 19:12, "His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

    Now, let's look at this scripture in context to get a better understanding of its meaning, Revelation 19:10-13, "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." (AV).

    A close examination of the above scriptures clearly shows the one being spoken of is none other than Jesus (Yeshua) the Son of God (YHWH) and not Almighty God (YHWH). How can this be definitely ascertained? All one has to do is look at Revelation 19:13 which states, " his name is called The Word of God," a term often used for Jesus (Yeshua), but NEVER for his Father, Almighty God (YHWH). Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary says of the Word or Logos, the following:

    So those trying to claim that Jesus (Yeshua) is his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) are not in line with Bible truths. In fact, his Jewish name transliterated as Yeshua or Yehoshua in English literally means, " Yah is salvation," or "YHWH is salvation" clearly showing he is NOT his Father (YHWH). In fact it was a rather common practice in ancient Israel to incorporate the divine name YHWH or its abreviation YAH into names of individuals.

    In fact, Jesus (Yeshua) proved faithful to his Father (YHWH), as shown at Revelation 1:5, "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," (AV); therefore, he became, as shown at Hebrews 5:9-10, "9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." (AV).

    Of course this obediance would be fitting as shown at 1 Timothy 6:15, Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" (AV); And this is affirmed at Revelation 17:14, "These shall make war with the Lamb [Jesus (Yeshua)],and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." (AV); And Revelation 19:16 shows, "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (AV). Thus, these scriptures show that his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) has placed him over all except himself as affirmed at 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (AV), once more the Father shows he is the supreme one in the universe and that he has made his Son, Jesus (Yeshua), second only to himself.

    And, last but not least, he became, per 1 Timothy 2:5, " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (AV), and (Hebrews 12:24, " And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." (AV).

    We should humble ourselves and keep the mental attitude of Jesus (Yeshua) testified to at Philippians 2:5-11, "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave's form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (New World Translation, NWT). Here we see First, that Jesus (Yeshua) was obedient to his Father (YHWH) and did so even permitting his Father (YHWH) to use him as the required sacrifice per Matthew 20:28, "Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many." (NWT). The Apostle Paul clearly affirmed this fact at Hebrews 9:11-12, "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (AV)

    As previously mentioned, Jesus (Yeshua) was an obedient Son and recognized his Father's (YHWH's) superior position as clearly shown when he prayed to his Father (YHWH) at John John 14:28, " Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (AV); And at John 17:5, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (AV); And at at John 17:15, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." (AV). Clearly by praying to his Father (YHWH), Jesus (Yeshua) was acknowledging his superior position, and this he testified to at John 20:17, "Jesus said to her, 'Stop clinging to Me; for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren, and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God." (New American Standard Bible - Reference Edition by Moody Press, Chicago, a div. Of Moody Bible Institute; NASB-MP); clearly here he made known that his Father (YHWH) was not only our God (YHWH), but also his God (YHWH). Therefore, he is NOT on the same high position as his Father (YHWH) and Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (AV), the First Commandment is not violated as it would be if he, Jesus (Yeshua) were coequal with his Father (YHWH) as many claim in error having listened to the false teachings of mankind. Therefore, we should constantly check as did the Bereans, as recorded at Acts 17:11, "These were more noble than those in Thesalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (AV).

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  2. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    I disagree...

    "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you." Tit. 2:11-15

    "For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given: and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God." Isaiah 9:6

    "My Father who has given them to me is greater than all: and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and My Father are one." John 10:29-30

    "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 8:58

    After Christ arose...he spoke to Thomas and when Thomas saw him he replied...

    "My Lord and my God!." John 20:28

    You yourself, in your post, referred to Jesus Christ as The Word...

    In John 1:1-5...the Eternal Word is defined as being both God and Christ...

    "In the beginning, was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness did not comprehend it."

    Jesus Christ is the light, the truth, the way...

    "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16
     
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  3. Dentonz

    Dentonz Member

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    In the scriptures we're discussing, the man talking to John does not claim to be Jesus. He said that he was of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus not that he was Jesus. After he tells him this then John sees heaven opened and he sees the Word of God (Jesus) on the white horse. And if you read further in verse 16, he is called the King of kings and Lord of lords. Only God can have that title.
     
  4. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi dawny0826

    I am NOT exactly sure what you are disagreeing with as my post was mainly scripture.

    But with respect John 8:58, go to the following to learn the facts: because of length,

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1137183676

    With respect to John 10:29-30, here is briefly the scoop on this:

    John 10:30 I and my Father are one. (New American Standard Bible; NASB)

    This is an interesting scripture, and taken alone out of context could lead the unsteadfast to the false conclusion that they were one in body, but taken in contest, this would be seen as impossible. In John 10:29, Jesus (Yeshua) clearly showed they were two separate individuals, "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (NASB). Clearly here was a giver, the Father (YHWH) whom Jesus (Yeshua) publically declared was "greater than all" which statement would include being greater than himself, Jesus (Yeshua). Also, there was a receiver, a distinct individual, "has given them to Me."

    This 'one' is one in purpose and this is made clear at John 17:9-11, " "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. Which not only shows Jesus (Yeshua) and his Father (YHWH) as being one in prupose, but also, all the true Christian followers of his Son (Yeshua).

    As previously mentioned, many try and misuse this scripture, John 10:30, to support either a Duality or a Trinity; however, it supports neither and especially not a Trinity as only two individual beings are mentioned in it.

    With respect a Trinity, Jay P. Green's, "Classic Bible Dictionary," says, "This is not itself a Biblical term, but was a term coined by Tertullian to refer to the whole concept under one word." [Classic Bible Dictionary," by Jay P. Green, page 483]. Another renown work says, "Respecting the manner in which the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make one G-d, the Scripture teaches nothing, since the subject is of such a nature as not to admit of its being explained to us." [Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature," under Trinity, on page 553]. In other words, this false God (YHWH) dishonoring false doctrine of the Trinity is a revealed doctrine of men that is foreign to the scripture (Bible). It is to be outright rejected by all who are true followers of Jesus (Yeshua).

    With respect Isaiah 9:6, go to the following to learn the facts:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/388928/thread/1123818638/last-1123818638/The+Facts+on+Isaiah+9-6+and+9-7

    With respect to John 20:28, go to the following to learn the facts:

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=religious&thread=1137636228

    I trust this will answer all your questions and objections.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  5. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Dentonz vbmenu_register("postmenu_320958", true);

    You made a statement,
    But your comment is in error as you clearly forgot several scriptures. Let's take a look at some of them;

    John 14:28 where Jesus (Yeshua) said with respect to his Father, God (YHWH), "
    Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (Authorized King James Bible; AV)

    And,

    1 Corinthians 15:22-28 where Jesus (Yeshua) is clearly shown as in subjection to his Father, God (YHWH), "
    For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (AV).

    Now note verse 27 where it clearly shows Jesus' (Yeshua's) Father, God (YHWH) as the all powerful one who gave his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) authority over all but himself as follows, "But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted," so it is clear he gave him authority over all things but himself and this is made doubly clear by verse 28.

    And,

    His Father, God (YHWH) gave Jesus (Yeshua) the assignment of judging all per John 5:22, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:" (AV) clearly showing two things, the Father, God (YHWH) is superior since only a superior can assign others, and that they are two different spirit beings.

    For more information, go to:

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1137157168

    And,

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1135723580

    And,

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1135862671

    And,

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1125551231

    And,

    http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?board=religious&action=display&thread=1126068115

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89

     
  6. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    Hi Iris,

    Are you disputing the scripture that I posted?

    I had a hunch that you were trying to disprove the trinity.

    I wasn't disputing the scripture you posted originally...I was disputing your interpretation of it. I agree wholeheartedly with Dentonz's post.

    Out of curiosity, which version of the Bible do you normally reference?

    I'm a Christian. I believe whole heartedly in the Trinity. It's every bit a spiritual concept as it is a mental concept. I'd be more than happy to quote more scripture where the Trinity is implied.

    It was by the Blood of Jesus Christ, that I have salvation. This was God's design for my salvation. And when I accepted Christ as my Saviour...I received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Father, Son and Holy Ghost...ALL ONE. When I pray, in the name of Jesus Christ...I'm praying to God, my Father because they are ONE.

    http://www.learnthebible.org/praying_in_jesus_name.htm

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

    The Great Mystery

    "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, Seen by the Angel, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in Glory." 1 Tim. 3:16 NKJV
     
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  7. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi dawny0826

    FIRST, Your comment,

    I am not disputing the scriptures you posted, only your incorrect understanding of them as you would readily see if you went and read my articles at the links provided. I accept the entire Bible as the Word of God (YHWH), but not wrong creedal interpretations. I am an independent Bible researcher and an Ordained Minister of the Gospel. I work daily to help all correctly understand scripture in line with 1 Peter 1:19-20, " We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

    SECOND, With respect to Bibles, I normally use the Authorized King James Bible (AV) and the American Standard Version (ASV), and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible (DRCB), but I prefer the An American Bible (AAB), the New English Bible (NEB), and the American Standard Version (ASV) and the Rotherham.

    THIRD, What the Bible has revealed is no mystery, only that which has not been revealed is a mystery.

    FOURTH, Now please remember Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.

    To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  8. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    Iris, I'll be back later to continue our conversation. :)
     
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  9. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Hi, guys! Just a general reminder to please use the Same Faith Debates
    if debate is called for. Thanks! (Also, please check frubals! ;) )
     
  10. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    Thanks, Feathers. :)
     
  11. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    I am an independent Bible researcher and do not participate in debates. I find their purpose, i.e., to show up the other person, both fruitless and unloving and consider them a violation of Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

    However, I love discussions where the objective is to learn more. If anyone wants to debate, bind someone interested in debate and I am NOT that someone.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
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