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Comment on Title: Jesus of the Books by Paul George

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Brickjectivity, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I am not sure where to put this, but scriptural debates seems close enough.

    There is a new book out which argues that Christianity begins after the C.E. 70 Jewish war. I would like to hear from any of our learned members. The author of the book is not a very well known author, and I'm not asking you to buy his book but to comment on the idea as briefly as possible.

    Key verse for the book: I Thessalonians 2:16 "in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. (NIV)" What do you guess is the date this verse is written? The book argues that at minimum I Thessalonians has to have been written post C.E. 70 and that this verse refers to the cataclysmic event of the destruction of the temple and the Jewish-Roman war. From there it goes on further looking at other resources. I just am interested in hearing what you think of the idea and if its common among scholars or other groups. Do any churches teach this? What about seminaries or divinity programs?
     
  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    2:13 to 2:16 is considered a later interpolation based both on content and on linguistic grounds, (see wiki).
     
  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Sorry not learned myself through anything other than my own investigations, but I generally see Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism to be the two surviving branches of ancient Hebrew belief.

    There were a number of religious factions prior in the state of Judea. I don't see how the passage indicated really shows Christianity as beginning at this time but perhaps the end of a major faction of the Judean beliefs, namely the Sadducees.

    Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism survived probably partially due to the fact their beliefs were not tied to a location/temple.
     
  4. Rough Beast Sloucher

    Rough Beast Sloucher Well-Known Member
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    If the key verse for the book is 1 Thessalonians 2:15, there is no case for it being written after 70 AD. The NIV translates the Greek telos as ‘at last’. By contrast the KJV has ‘to the uttermost’. As per Strong’s, the primary meaning of the word means “End: termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time). (Emphasis added) ‘At last’ means at the end of a period of time.

    Paul gives definite indication in a number of places that the return of Jesus was expected in the lifetime of most of his readers. The Gospel of Mark picks up on this idea, saying that the Son of Man will come before some of his listeners have died and again that it will be before the current generation is gone. The first sign of the end would be the destruction of the Temple, which happened in 70 AD. If this is viewed as an event that had already taken place at the time of writing retrofitted into a prophecy made decades before, then Mark could not have been written much after 70 AD. Otherwise the claim that some of the people alive at the time of Jesus would still be alive then would not work. Mark can be viewed as an attempt to reinvigorate the idea of Jesus coming back soon, a hard to maintain hope after 40 years or so. (If one wants to take the Olivet Discourse as actual prophecy, then it is definitely before 70 AD.)

    Mark incorporates various material from Paul, including the bread and wine language from 1 Corinthians 11:23-28, as well as the near-term return of Jesus. It is reasonable to think that Paul wrote before 70 AD. Since Paul wrote to communities that already knew about Jesus, the origin of Christianity must have been even earlier.

    IMO the idea does not work.
     
  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    I Dont think the church needs help in the absurd category. It seems well versed in it already starting with scholars. Lol oh my god scholars hahaha hahaha hahaha..
     
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