Coming out as a Deist

[Earthtank]

Hello everyone,

I’ll try to keep this short, I have been Agnostic for as long as I can remember, over the last 2-3 years I have started seriously looking in to Atheism (which is not much) and Religions. After countless hours of talking about, watching, listening, reading and replying to debates/conversations I think I can confidentially say that I am a Deist. At the moment, I do not subscribe to any particular religion however, during this time I have eliminated some religions from the “competition” (I do not wish to go in to detail about that here) and leaning towards one but, the journey continues. With that said, I am still and always will be looking for someone to challenge my thoughts and beliefs. I am, by no means a scholar or expert on religion or science however, I would definitely welcome a 1 on 1 debate with anyone in effort to either find the “truth” or “eliminate” that which is false.

 

[Quintessence]

What's your understanding of deism? In what way have you found that different from your former agnosticism?

Not interested in challenging your thoughts... moreso interested in hearing the story you have to tell.

 

[Earthtank]

What's your understanding of deism?

The existence of something/creator/supreme power outside this universe.

In what way have you found that different from your former agnosticism?

Agnosticism is never really being sure about anything but, over time i found that not to be true about myself anymore.

In short, it provided rational and logical answers to questions that we have seemed to over complicate (at least IMO). Very brief example, is the creation of the universe, i know there are many models out there and multiple thoughts/beliefs, however, after looking into them I found that Deism actually provides an answer but, do not confuse or take that statement as if i am saying i became a Deist because it simply provided the answer, what i am saying is Deism happened to provide that answer which i thought made the most rational and logical sense to me.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The existence of something/creator/supreme power outside this universe.

While this is true of my understanding, I usually see that deism also believes in no involvement in the universe by that deity. Is that something you also agree with?

 

[Koldo]

Hello everyone,

I’ll try to keep this short, I have been Agnostic for as long as I can remember, over the last 2-3 years I have started seriously looking in to Atheism (which is not much) and Religions. After countless hours of talking about, watching, listening, reading and replying to debates/conversations I think I can confidentially say that I am a Deist. At the moment, I do not subscribe to any particular religion however, during this time I have eliminated some religions from the “competition” (I do not wish to go in to detail about that here) and leaning towards one but, the journey continues. With that said, I am still and always will be looking for someone to challenge my thoughts and beliefs. I am, by no means a scholar or expert on religion or science however, I would definitely welcome a 1 on 1 debate with anyone in effort to either find the “truth” or “eliminate” that which is false.

What do you see as relevant to debate concerning Deism ?

 

[Earthtank]

While this is true of my understanding, I usually see that deism also believes in no involvement in the universe by that deity. Is that something you also agree with?

I will answer this in both the negative and affirmative because i am not entirely sure.

I would say Yes, IF one of these religions are true then, he has given us the guidance we need therefore, no need to get involved and he has already set everything "in motion"

I would say No because, what keeps everything going? We know the earth rotates for a reason, we know it follows certain law of physics and nature so, if this deity never gets or got involved, what keeps the earth following these laws?

Sorry i was not able to give a concrete answer but, i gave you my honest answer.

 

[Spartan]

Hello everyone,

I’ll try to keep this short, I have been Agnostic for as long as I can remember, over the last 2-3 years I have started seriously looking in to Atheism (which is not much) and Religions. After countless hours of talking about, watching, listening, reading and replying to debates/conversations I think I can confidentially say that I am a Deist. At the moment, I do not subscribe to any particular religion however, during this time I have eliminated some religions from the “competition” (I do not wish to go in to detail about that here) and leaning towards one but, the journey continues. With that said, I am still and always will be looking for someone to challenge my thoughts and beliefs. I am, by no means a scholar or expert on religion or science however, I would definitely welcome a 1 on 1 debate with anyone in effort to either find the “truth” or “eliminate” that which is false.

I did that search decades ago. Finally settled on Christianity. The Messianic prophecies - fulfilled at an improbable rate far, far, above chance, is the signature of God IMO. Here's backup on that:

Science Speaks by Peter W. Stoner, Chapter 3, The Christ of Prophecy

 

[Earthtank]

What do you see as relevant to debate concerning Deism ?

Creation of the universe, Abiogensis,Origin of consciousness, How nothing can create something or anything along those lines. As stated before, i am no scholar or scientists and welcome the opportunity to learn and have no problem being corrected or educated on any subject.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I will answer this in both the negative and affirmative because i am not entirely sure.

I would say Yes, IF one of these religions are true then, he has given us the guidance we need therefore, no need to get involved and he has already set everything "in motion"

I would say No because, what keeps everything going? We know the earth rotates for a reason, we know it follows certain law of physics and nature so, if this deity never gets or got involved, what keeps the earth following these laws?

Sorry i was not able to give a concrete answer but, i gave you my honest answer.

Guidance? I'm assuming you mean of the Christian variety? Most deists (including Christian deists) did not believe in the divinity or miracles of Jesus, but believed his message was overall good and worth being followed.

 

[Earthtank]

Guidance? I'm assuming you mean of the Christian variety?

No actually i do not. I was using that word as a general word/statement not pertaining to any particular religion. I guess all the time spent looking into regions (which i still do) seemed to have effected by vocabulary.

 

[Spartan]

Deism was popular in the 17 and 18 hundreds. Some individuals claim the founding fathers were predominately deist, but that's incorrect. A study was done on that. Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas conducted a study of the Founding Founders to look at that question (whether the Founding Fathers were deists or Christians). He discovered the Founders were members of denominations as follows: twenty-eight Episcopalians, eight Presbyterians, seven Congregationalists, two Lutherans, two Dutch Reformed, two Methodists, two Roman Catholics, and only three deists.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I will answer this in both the negative and affirmative because i am not entirely sure.

I would say Yes, IF one of these religions are true then, he has given us the guidance we need therefore, no need to get involved and he has already set everything "in motion"

I would say No because, what keeps everything going? We know the earth rotates for a reason, we know it follows certain law of physics and nature so, if this deity never gets or got involved, what keeps the earth following these laws?

Sorry i was not able to give a concrete answer but, i gave you my honest answer.

As for the state of the universe now, deists whom I've spoken to don't believe a God is keeping the world spinning, but the world keeps spinning due to inertia and will stop when the sun engulfs it. That 'laws of nature' are descriptive of relationships objects have, not prescriptive, a force causing them to do something externally.

 

[Earthtank]

deists whom I've spoken to don't believe a God is keeping the world spinning

Maybe i will eventually get there or maybe i will disagree with them, i am not there yet.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Deism was popular in the 17 and 18 hundreds. Some individuals claim the founding fathers were predominately deist, but that's incorrect. A study was done on that. Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas conducted a study of the Founding Founders to look at that question (whether the Founding Fathers were deists or Christians). He discovered the Founders were members of denominations as follows: twenty-eight Episcopalians, eight Presbyterians, seven Congregationalists, two Lutherans, two Dutch Reformed, two Methodists, two Roman Catholics, and only three deists.

Being a member of a denomination by social or legal purposes doesn't mean you actually expouse belief in that denomination. Jefferson was deist, for example, by his own writing, not what social decorum demanded he attend.
Heck, I go to mass sometimes with family to make them happy, and I don't have any political pressure on me to conform.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Maybe i will eventually get there or maybe i will disagree with them, i am not there yet.

Thank you for clarifying your position for me. Good luck in your journey.

 

[Spartan]

Being a member of a denomination by social or legal purposes doesn't mean you actually expouse belief in that denomination. Jefferson was deist, for example, by his own writing, not what social decorum demanded he attend.
Heck, I go to mass sometimes with family to make them happy, and I don't have any political pressure on me to conform.

Jefferson may have been a deist earlier in life, but not later in life. You have to remember what a deist is/was:

The two principle beliefs of Deism were:

1. Although God created the universe, he did not intervene in the affairs of men and nations. He did not guide men into the founding of nations, or do miracles, or answer prayer, or provide providential protection to his followers.

2. God did not give divine / revealed revelation to man (i.e. the Bible, prophecy, etc.)

Jefferson believed in a God who intervened in the affairs of men and nations. He was hardly speaking from a strict deist standpoint when he said:

“Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781)

Now, why should Jefferson tremble for his country if God does not involve himself in the affairs of men and nations?

And then there’s this:

“I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessities and comforts of life.” (Monday, March 4, 1805, in his 2nd Inaugural Address)

Another oblique reference to the Bible. Remember, a strict deist was one who believed God was like a watchmaker, who wound up the universe and thereafter did not involve himself in the affairs of men and nations. Jefferson obviously believed otherwise, and thus was not a deist.

More in the link/article below.

Were the Founding Fathers Deists?

 

[columbus]

He discovered the Founders were members of denominations as follows: twenty-eight Episcopalians, eight Presbyterians, seven Congregationalists, two Lutherans, two Dutch Reformed, two Methodists, two Roman Catholics, and only three deists.

I'm both a Catholic and an agnostic Deist.
Don't tell me that someone, 200 years later, can read the minds of the Founding Fathers.
Tom

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Jefferson may have been a deist earlier in life, but not later in life. You have to remember what a deist is/was:

The two principle beliefs of Deism were:

1. Although God created the universe, he did not intervene in the affairs of men and nations. He did not guide men into the founding of nations, or do miracles, or answer prayer, or provide providential protection to his followers.

2. God did not give divine / revealed revelation to man (i.e. the Bible, prophecy, etc.)

Jefferson believed in a God who intervened in the affairs of men and nations. He was hardly speaking from a strict deist standpoint when he said:

“Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781)

Now, why should Jefferson tremble for his country if God does not involve himself in the affairs of men and nations?

And then there’s this:

“I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessities and comforts of life.” (Monday, March 4, 1805, in his 2nd Inaugural Address)

Another oblique reference to the Bible. Remember, a strict deist was one who believed God was like a watchmaker, who wound up the universe and thereafter did not involve himself in the affairs of men and nations. Jefferson obviously believed otherwise, and thus was not a deist.

More in the link/article below.

Were the Founding Fathers Deists?

Jefferson published the Jefferson bible, in which he removed every divine miracle or reference to Jesus as a divine being, in 1804. It is considered the quintessential Christian deist manuscript. Which he continued to speak about in letters long past then. It's clear Jefferson had a mainstream Christian public speaking role and private role, shred with close associates and friends. Which continues to be true of political figures to this day.

 

[Spartan]

Jefferson published the Jefferson bible, in which he removed every divine miracle or reference to Jesus as a divine being, in 1804. It is considered the quintessential Christian deist manuscript. Which he continued to speak about in letters long past then. It's clear Jefferson had a mainstream Christian public speaking role and private role, shred with close associates and friends. Which continues to be true of political figures to this day.

The Jefferson Bible was about ethics, as opposed to the supernatural. But Jefferson - by virtue of the quotes I already listed - believed in a supernatural God who intervened in the affairs of men and nations. He wasn't a deist or a Christian, but then he wasn't a truly informed theologian either.

 

[Spartan]

I'm both a Catholic and an agnostic Deist.
Don't tell me that someone, 200 years later, can read the minds of the Founding Fathers.
Tom

We can know of them by what they wrote and did.

And if you wish to be informed about the founding fathers and Jefferson, you might appreciate this quote:

"“Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least.” - Thomas Jefferson, a Bill for Proportioning Crimes and Punishment