ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I'm probably going to use that as the title or tagline of my next comedy revue.
"I literally perform stand up."
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Comedians shouldn't have to apologize for jokes.
- Thread starter Cacotopia
- Start date
"I literally perform stand up."
Don't take this the wrong way....
I never thought of you as having a sense of humor.
OK, there's no right way to take that.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No offence taken. I can be a bit dry on these forums, but I'm actually not a very serious guy in real life. I can tell a tall tale or recall a hilarious jape with the best of them.
The above not being a great example.
Loviatar
Red Tory/SpongeBob Conservative
Most comedians would back up what ImmortalFlame's saying here. Context and target absolutely matter, it's what draws the line between comedy and bullying.
Most comedians are people who for whatever reason (height, weight, race) were bullied as kids, and learned how to be funny in response. They usually don't like punching down, or being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. There certainly are comedians who do, but those are often people like Denis Leary who are just famous for stealing actual comedians' jokes. When I think of "the greats of comedy," none make the list.
Most comedians are people who for whatever reason (height, weight, race) were bullied as kids, and learned how to be funny in response. They usually don't like punching down, or being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. There certainly are comedians who do, but those are often people like Denis Leary who are just famous for stealing actual comedians' jokes. When I think of "the greats of comedy," none make the list.
I remember watching Andrew Dice Clay, & thinking what a
careful routine he had. Sure, sure, it was crude & sexist,
but he skirted (accidental pun) incendiary kinds of jabs.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Humor is a very delicate thing and always has been. Humor is most often critical in nature but performed in a way that pokes fun at something serious and that is why it tickles our funny-bone. Sometimes humor is not obvious and needs a few more intellectual connections before the joke sinks in. Other times a joke is slapstick in nature and is simply absurd, immediately translatable and often hilarious.
Humor also is directly connected to three factors:
1. The understanding of the target audience. (You cannot go too far over the heads of your audience or your joke will fail.) For example: Making a high tech joke at a blue hair knitting circle. Prolly isn't going to get laughs because they don't know what you are talking about.
2. The skill of the person telling the joke in their ability to carry it off. This one is much trickier than it seems. A lot of jokes will fall flat because they aren't thought out properly and then quickly die upon execution. Anyone who tells a lot of joke will immediately understand what I mean here.
3. The nature of the joke's target. Like it or not, some targets are much more controversial than others. Anyone who tells jokes understands that they may be crossing the line and are normally quite aware of where that line is. It's a calculated risk that someone will not be deeply offended. If you meet with a violent response, you have not correctly gauged your audience.
So..... I have to agree with @ImmortalFlame - for the most part - as the responsibility is on the comedian to read their audience. Some comedians push that rule and their careers will often suffer for that due to the toxic nature of their humor and their decision to offend almost anyone within earshot. Dice-Clay is a good example here of someone who really didn't seem to get that it was OK to be edgy but he would have become far more successful if he had learned to throttle it back.
That brings me to my next point. I've heard more than a few famous comedians who will no longer do the college circuit due to the overt hyper-sensitivity that is now becoming the norm on college campuses the world over. Both Seinfeld and John Cleese have come out saying that this is wrong and that people have to remember the context of humor or comedy, as we know it, will soon be dead.
I agree with every word Cleese says in the above and that is coming from someone who has a relentless sense of humor and continually makes people laugh and always has.
For example, it would never occur to me to do a racist joke, but OFTEN employ different voices (characters) to tell my joke. In my repertoire there is the snotty Aristocratic British fop, the outraged German authoritarian, the excitable Japanese youth, the super friendly "East" Indian, the booze addled Scotsman, the Southern US Christian conservative... etc... I use them to couch my critique of a given sacred cow and it often adds yet another layer of hilarity to the whole thing. But some might find just the accent to be mildly offensive.... *sigh*
*climbs back under the nearest rock*
Humor also is directly connected to three factors:
1. The understanding of the target audience. (You cannot go too far over the heads of your audience or your joke will fail.) For example: Making a high tech joke at a blue hair knitting circle. Prolly isn't going to get laughs because they don't know what you are talking about.
2. The skill of the person telling the joke in their ability to carry it off. This one is much trickier than it seems. A lot of jokes will fall flat because they aren't thought out properly and then quickly die upon execution. Anyone who tells a lot of joke will immediately understand what I mean here.
3. The nature of the joke's target. Like it or not, some targets are much more controversial than others. Anyone who tells jokes understands that they may be crossing the line and are normally quite aware of where that line is. It's a calculated risk that someone will not be deeply offended. If you meet with a violent response, you have not correctly gauged your audience.
So..... I have to agree with @ImmortalFlame - for the most part - as the responsibility is on the comedian to read their audience. Some comedians push that rule and their careers will often suffer for that due to the toxic nature of their humor and their decision to offend almost anyone within earshot. Dice-Clay is a good example here of someone who really didn't seem to get that it was OK to be edgy but he would have become far more successful if he had learned to throttle it back.
That brings me to my next point. I've heard more than a few famous comedians who will no longer do the college circuit due to the overt hyper-sensitivity that is now becoming the norm on college campuses the world over. Both Seinfeld and John Cleese have come out saying that this is wrong and that people have to remember the context of humor or comedy, as we know it, will soon be dead.
I agree with every word Cleese says in the above and that is coming from someone who has a relentless sense of humor and continually makes people laugh and always has.
For example, it would never occur to me to do a racist joke, but OFTEN employ different voices (characters) to tell my joke. In my repertoire there is the snotty Aristocratic British fop, the outraged German authoritarian, the excitable Japanese youth, the super friendly "East" Indian, the booze addled Scotsman, the Southern US Christian conservative... etc... I use them to couch my critique of a given sacred cow and it often adds yet another layer of hilarity to the whole thing. But some might find just the accent to be mildly offensive.... *sigh*
*climbs back under the nearest rock*
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Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
Of course I have seen comedy that insults, demeans, and ridicules. It's not the intent of a joke. When Christina P belittles and ridicules and mocks people who say on the news that you should ask your toddler if you have permission to touch them and change their diaper. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
When Bill Burr trashes women on his podcast or his stand up for things that women do that if men did them, they would get suplexed for it without anyone batting an eye over it. That's still comedy.
When Louis CK or any other comedian DE Stroys some person in the crowd for not shutting the hell up during their routine. There is nothing wrong at all with that.
All of those examples are comedians demeaning, ridiculing and insulting people to push a point of a bit through, or to shut a heckler up. Do they truly mean and believe what they say 100% of the time? I would say no, they do not.
When Bill Burr trashes women on his podcast or his stand up for things that women do that if men did them, they would get suplexed for it without anyone batting an eye over it. That's still comedy.
When Louis CK or any other comedian DE Stroys some person in the crowd for not shutting the hell up during their routine. There is nothing wrong at all with that.
All of those examples are comedians demeaning, ridiculing and insulting people to push a point of a bit through, or to shut a heckler up. Do they truly mean and believe what they say 100% of the time? I would say no, they do not.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
But that falls under "correctly gauging your audience", even dealing with hecklers. As long as your are on the "right side" of the line (of outrage) your comments will go over well. Go against your target audience and all hell will break loose.
This is why it is so difficult for comedians to go on college campuses since the advent of Intersectionality Dogma becoming deeply entrenched. They can no longer gauge their audiences level of acceptance because the audience are essentially extremists and no longer conform to societal norms.
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Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
Which is why a comedian need not apologize to a person outside of his audience. If some person read a blog from the guy in row 8 seat F, who removed all the context from the comedian, and put his spin on what he though the comedian says. Who is to blame there? I would say the blogger would need to apologize to the comedian for misrepresenting what he said.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
When one is psychoanalyzing a comedian's jokes one really needs to think of moving out of mom's basement and getting out into the real world.
That does not mean that a lot of my own (and others) jokes are not designed to make people think. Often we skate something under the radar that has more than a bit of truth to it and the absurdity massages the truth bomb to make it more palatable.
For example, my skit about Muhammad's trip to visit god and haggle about the number of prayers is outright gold, though I doubt that many Muslims would see it as humorous. The whole idea is absurd to begin with and I run with the ball a good distance. It's a story that begs to be mocked.
Isra and Mi'raj - Wikipedia
PureX
Veteran Member
Almost never does a doctor have someone's life in their hands. And anyway, you're avoiding the point: that we all screw up, occasionally, and it's a generally positive practice to apologize to those we may have hurt or offended as a result.
I see no reason that comedians should be especially excused from this practice.
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
When a comedian bombs, no one laughs, when a doctor bombs its a pretty big deal.
Comedians push the boundaries of what is acceptable regularly. Doctors I would think usually have to test things a few years or a decade or so before trying something out of the blue.
Comedians push the boundaries of what is acceptable regularly. Doctors I would think usually have to test things a few years or a decade or so before trying something out of the blue.
Yerda
Veteran Member
When did people start taking offense at accents and why?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
My year long Bridge partner used that as her excuse to dissolve out partnership.... That she was utterly clueless in bidding in Bridge didn't help. I verified with the person I had adopted a German accent from and she insisted that she loved it and was not offended -- in the slightest and actually loved it. Go figure, eh?