Colossians 1:16 Jesus the Almighty, [John 1:3, Jesus is God incarnated

[moorea944]

You didn't answer the question, nor did I say that Dovid called Jesus, yahweh.

The question, again,

Psalms 110:1

Matthew 22:37-46
'David calls me Lord', Jesus says.

So which Lord, in Psalms 110:1

Is Jesus referring to, when He says, 'David calls me Lord'.

Psalms 110 is talking about GOD or Yahweh and the Lord Jesus Christ. It's about a future prophecy. Just because they are both called Lord or LORD, doesnt mean they are both the same. Scripture never tells us that they are both the same. 1 Cor 11v3 is the the divine order of the Godhead. GOD first, then Jesus, then man, then woman. Plus Jesus is always in subject to his Father. Now and in the future. Never co-equal.

Matthew 22:37-46
'David calls me Lord', Jesus says.
Yes, that's correct. It's about a future prophecy. David knows about a coming Messiah. 2 Sam 7.

So which Lord, in Psalms 110:1 Is Jesus referring to, when He says, 'David calls me Lord'?
Well Jesus is referring to that in Mathew 22, not Psalms 110. Jesus isnt born yet. Psalms 110 is David. 110 v 1 is GOD talking to Jesus. But it's a future tense. Future prophecy on something that is going to happen. GOD knows the beginning to the end. So sometimes in scripture the way it's written, it's written like it already happen. GOD already sees that. That is something that "will" happen in the future.

 

[calm]

The generally accepted form of the divine name in English is “Jehovah,” and the name is similarly represented in other languages.

Here is a list of all the different ways that God's name is translated in other languages...we seem to get hung up on the English translation as if it is the only one. So tell me which of these names does God answer to?


The creator of language knows his name in all languages. A translation is not a transliteration.....do you know the difference?

God has only one name. And this name shall not be changed.
Do you not know from whom the name "Jehovah" comes? It comes from your beloved Catholic Church. The name "Jehovah" is also not a translation of the real name, but an attempt to discover the real name. The Catholics at that time (in the 14th or 15th century) wanted to bring the already forgotten name of God back into the world. But how they did it was wrong. They mixed the title adOnAi with JHWH and from this came the name "Jehovah" . This re-vocalization of the Tetragram is called "Qere perpetuum". The majority of Jewish and Christian scholars also agree that the name Jehovah is clearly wrong.
You guys don't realize that you've been preaching a false name all these years.
btw. don't you also find it strange that "Hovah" in Hebrew means disaster? Strong's Hebrew: 1943. הֹוָה (hovah) -- a ruin, disaster

 

[Deeje]

God has only one name. And this name shall not be changed.

According to Exodus 3:15 in the Tanach...you are correct.

"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

The name of God is יְהֹוָ֞ה......which in Hebrew is "Yahweh" or something similar as far as anyone can tell.
The name in English is "Jehovah", just as in English, "Jesus" is the name of God's son...or one of them. Jesus has several names, depending upon the role he is playing at any given time.....but Jehovah has only one name....strangely, the holy spirit has no name at all.

Do you not know from whom the name "Jehovah" comes? It comes from your beloved Catholic Church. The name "Jehovah" is also not a translation of the real name, but an attempt to discover the real name.

Are you saying that leaving God's name out of conversation and out of his inspired word is preferable to saying his name in a language other than Hebrew? How many of us speak Hebrew? How many of us call the Bible's Jewish characters by their Hebrew names? How many people would know the name of Jesus, if he was called Jehoshua? Do you think that God can't speak all languages?

What about all the "J" names, like.....Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jehoiachin, Jehonadab, Joel or Jehoshaphat? Since most of those "J" names incorporate the divine name, should we start lobbying the Bible translators to rewrite all the "J" Bible names in Hebrew?

The majority of Jewish and Christian scholars also agree that the name Jehovah is clearly wrong.
You guys don't realize that you've been preaching a false name all these years.

They quibble over pronunciation but the tetragrammaton is there in the Hebrew text for all to see. What pronunciation you give it is irrelevant if you are referring to the person who posseses that name and it is widely known in English, like "Jesus". Why balk about "Jehovah's" name but freely use "Jesus"? If you think Jesus is God, don't you think that's a bit contradictory?

btw. don't you also find it strange that "Hovah" in Hebrew means disaster? Strong's Hebrew: 1943. הֹוָה (hovah) -- a ruin, disaster

The meaning of God's name is disclosed at Exodus 3:14 in the Tanach...
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

This is how the Jews understand the meaning of the divine name.....which in the next verse quoted previously is יְהֹוָ֞ה

 

[Desert Snake]

Psalms 110 is talking about GOD or Yahweh and the Lord Jesus Christ. It's about a future prophecy. Just because they are both called Lord or LORD, doesnt mean they are both the same. Scripture never tells us that they are both the same. 1 Cor 11v3 is the the divine order of the Godhead. GOD first, then Jesus, then man, then woman. Plus Jesus is always in subject to his Father. Now and in the future. Never co-equal.

Matthew 22:37-46
'David calls me Lord', Jesus says.
Yes, that's correct. It's about a future prophecy. David knows about a coming Messiah. 2 Sam 7.

So which Lord, in Psalms 110:1 Is Jesus referring to, when He says, 'David calls me Lord'?
Well Jesus is referring to that in Mathew 22, not Psalms 110. Jesus isnt born yet. Psalms 110 is David. 110 v 1 is GOD talking to Jesus. But it's a future tense. Future prophecy on something that is going to happen. GOD knows the beginning to the end. So sometimes in scripture the way it's written, it's written like it already happen. GOD already sees that. That is something that "will" happen in the future.

Mark 8:6-7
Jesus blessed, not asked for a blessing.

However you haven't accepted, or something, as you should already know that Jesus forgives, in the Bible...How does He forgive sins if your sacrifice theory is true? How does He bless, without asking for a blessing? Anyways, whatever religion you're practicing, it isn't something that can be argued scripturally.

 

[Desert Snake]

Psalms 110 is talking about GOD or Yahweh and the Lord Jesus Christ. It's about a future prophecy. Just because they are both called Lord or LORD, doesnt mean they are both the same. Scripture never tells us that they are both the same. 1 Cor 11v3 is the the divine order of the Godhead. GOD first, then Jesus, then man, then woman. Plus Jesus is always in subject to his Father. Now and in the future. Never co-equal.

Matthew 22:37-46
'David calls me Lord', Jesus says.
Yes, that's correct. It's about a future prophecy. David knows about a coming Messiah. 2 Sam 7.

So which Lord, in Psalms 110:1 Is Jesus referring to, when He says, 'David calls me Lord'?
Well Jesus is referring to that in Mathew 22, not Psalms 110. Jesus isnt born yet. Psalms 110 is David. 110 v 1 is GOD talking to Jesus. But it's a future tense. Future prophecy on something that is going to happen. GOD knows the beginning to the end. So sometimes in scripture the way it's written, it's written like it already happen. GOD already sees that. That is something that "will" happen in the future.

I don't know, missing the forest for the trees? If the "pater", geeez ...is the supreme authority, then why do you care about a co equal?

 

[Desert Snake]

Genesis 1:26 is backed up by Proverbs 8:30-31 and also Colossians 1:15-17.
The pre-human Jesus was the "Master Worker" alongside his Father in Creation. Jesus is not the Creator...he is the fabricator of what God produced when he began his creative works. As @Hockeycowboy has affirmed, material creation came about a long time after creation in the spirit realm. Angels....myriads of them, were brought into existence long before the universe came into being.

Riiiight.......


Hahahaha

 

[calm]

According to Exodus 3:15 in the Tanach...you are correct.

"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

The name of God is יְהֹוָ֞ה......which in Hebrew is "Yahweh" or something similar as far as anyone can tell.
The name in English is "Jehovah", just as in English, "Jesus" is the name of God's son...or one of them. Jesus has several names, depending upon the role he is playing at any given time.....but Jehovah has only one name....strangely, the holy spirit has no name at all.



Are you saying that leaving God's name out of conversation and out of his inspired word is preferable to saying his name in a language other than Hebrew? How many of us speak Hebrew? How many of us call the Bible's Jewish characters by their Hebrew names? How many people would know the name of Jesus, if he was called Jehoshua? Do you think that God can't speak all languages?

What about all the "J" names, like.....Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jehoiachin, Jehonadab, Joel or Jehoshaphat? Since most of those "J" names incorporate the divine name, should we start lobbying the Bible translators to rewrite all the "J" Bible names in Hebrew?



They quibble over pronunciation but the tetragrammaton is there in the Hebrew text for all to see. What pronunciation you give it is irrelevant if you are referring to the person who posses that name and it is widely known in English, like "Jesus". Why balk about "Jehovah's" name but freely use "Jesus"? If you think Jesus is God, don't you think that's a bit contradictory?



The meaning of God's name is disclosed at Exodus 3:14 in the Tanach...
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

This is how the Jews understand the meaning of the divine name.....which in the next verse quoted previously is יְהֹוָ֞ה

Well, if you think God has no problem that one gives him names that aren't his, then it's your business.
And as I said, Jehovah is not a translation but an attempt to bring the real name back into the world. You don't seem to understand that. The Catholics at that time really thought that the name Jehovah is exactly the name God Moses told. Meanwhile one knows that this is not the case.
Even if the name were just a translation, it would be just as wrong. One should not tinker with the name. No matter where I go, in every country my name is pronounced as it is.
The true name of God is Yahuah, and strangely enough there is no country and religion group in the world that uses this name.

 

[moorea944]

I don't know, missing the forest for the trees? If the "pater", geeez ...is the supreme authority, then why do you care about a co equal?

I never said that Jesus is co-equal. Most trinitarians do believe in that. I dont. Not really sure why you brought it up....

 

[moorea944]

Mark 8:6-7
Jesus blessed, not asked for a blessing.

However you haven't accepted, or something, as you should already know that Jesus forgives, in the Bible...How does He forgive sins if your sacrifice theory is true? How does He bless, without asking for a blessing? Anyways, whatever religion you're practicing, it isn't something that can be argued scripturally.

However you haven't accepted, or something, as you should already know that Jesus forgives, in the Bible.
Of course he does. Your forgetting that ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY was "given" to him by His Father. So...... does that make him GOD? No, of course not. In scripture we are told that Jesus come in the "name of the Father." He is the "image" of God. Jesus said that he can not do anything without the Father. Interesting........

Ok, then, who else can forgives sins... The apostles can and certain angels can too. That was given to them. If you want verses on that I'll be happy to give them. Does that make the them GOD?
Anyways, whatever religion you're practicing, it isn't something that can be argued scripturally.

 

[Deeje]

Well, if you think God has no problem that one gives him names that aren't his, then it's your business.

If you think God only speaks Hebrew then I think you are misinformed. If you recall, it was God himself who created the basis for all the languages that people speak in this world. He understands his name in any language.....for many who share your ideas, you would think that all he speaks is Hebrew and English. Unless we say his name in Hebrew correctly, he gets upset. Do you really believe that?

And as I said, Jehovah is not a translation but an attempt to bring the real name back into the world. You don't seem to understand that. The Catholics at that time really thought that the name Jehovah is exactly the name God Moses told. Meanwhile one knows that this is not the case.

How you pronounce it is irrelevant. People prove it by how they pronounce the name of Jesus, the majority of whom believe that he is God. It is different in many different languages....does Jesus jump up and down, throwing a tantrum because people aren't saying his name in Hebrew???? Seriously, your argument is empty.

Even if the name were just a translation, it would be just as wrong. One should not tinker with the name. No matter where I go, in every country my name is pronounced as it is.

Perhaps you should tell that to men named Peter, or Paul or any other English translation of a Bible name...it's not "tinkering" to say a name in a different language....it's the same name.

The true name of God is Yahuah, and strangely enough there is no country and religion group in the world that uses this name.

Except you apparently ......perhaps we should change that scripture that says that "God turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name" (Acts 15:14) to read "a person for his real name"?

Are you really the only person that God has revealed his truth to?
Who else believes what you believe? Do you have a brotherhood? Can you tell us who they are?

 

[Deeje]

Riiiight.......

Hahahaha

Anyways, whatever religion you're practicing, it isn't something that can be argued scripturally

I think it's our turn to laugh now....
Perhaps you need to turn that statement on yourself?

 

[Desert Snake]

I never said that Jesus is co-equal. Most trinitarians do believe in that. I dont. Not really sure why you brought it up....

Yeah it's just a hodge podge, though. You have Yeshua at Genesis 1:26, which would make him an angel, basically, as speculating his person there is just guessing, then you have jesus as the creator, the verses specify that Jesus by your argument would be Yahweh, thusly, Colossians 1:16, then you are saying that they both created?

Your argument makes Jesus, Yahweh, and makes Jesus Yahweh, at Genesis 1:26.
Colossians 1:16

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What’s “funny”, @Desert Snake ?

That God was talking to someone?

 

[Desert Snake]

So in the New Testament, 'jesus is the Ravvi', in the verses, 'call no man Rabbi', [except Jesus.

 

[Desert Snake]

Obviously this means 'head Rabbi', Rabbi of Rabbis', since you might call someone a Rabbi

 

[Desert Snake]

God has only one name. And this name shall not be changed.
Do you not know from whom the name "Jehovah" comes? It comes from your beloved Catholic Church. The name "Jehovah" is also not a translation of the real name, but an attempt to discover the real name. The Catholics at that time (in the 14th or 15th century) wanted to bring the already forgotten name of God back into the world. But how they did it was wrong. They mixed the title adOnAi with JHWH and from this came the name "Jehovah" . This re-vocalization of the Tetragram is called "Qere perpetuum". The majority of Jewish and Christian scholars also agree that the name Jehovah is clearly wrong.
You guys don't realize that you've been preaching a false name all these years.
btw. don't you also find it strange that "Hovah" in Hebrew means disaster? Strong's Hebrew: 1943. הֹוָה (hovah) -- a ruin, disaster

I believe it to be a coincidence when the Tetragrammaton was translated into meaning satan. In other words, they just used the word for ruin, and it made it seem like the verse was saying the Tetragrammaton was 'satan'.

Matthew 12:26

Satan has a Kingdom, ie is his own being,
So, Kingdom of Satan, means the one called satan, or Ha'lal.
So, since satan is used as a name, He'lel, or Ha'lal is understood to mean satan, anyways that's arguable perhaps, however that is the fallen angel, generally,

Then the "kingdom of satan" can't mean the kingdom of g-d, since Matthew 12 delineates these two. [Both kingdoms.


Traditionally, bothe Lucifer, He'lel, or, Ha'lalהילל, and "satan", have Kingdoms.

So, are satan and lucifer just referring to one being, or is it two beings.
Neither seem to be the Tetragrammaton .

 

[moorea944]

Yeah it's just a hodge podge, though. You have Yeshua at Genesis 1:26, which would make him an angel, basically, as speculating his person there is just guessing, then you have jesus as the creator, the verses specify that Jesus by your argument would be Yahweh, thusly, Colossians 1:16, then you are saying that they both created?

Your argument makes Jesus, Yahweh, and makes Jesus Yahweh, at Genesis 1:26.
Colossians 1:16

Ok, I really dont know where this is coming from. Because of your beliefs, your stating I'm making this into that and that into this... I"m really not sure where this is coming from.

then you have jesus as the creator, the verses specify that Jesus by your argument would be Yahweh, thusly, Colossians 1:16, then you are saying that they both created?

Again, really not sure why your saying all of this. This is something that I dont even believe in, so why would I even think it or believe in it. Jesus is not the Creator, our Heavenly Father is. And your saying by "my argument" I make Jesus Yahweh? Maybe... it's you that doesnt understand, because I"m not saying any of those things....

Your argument makes Jesus, Yahweh, and makes Jesus Yahweh, at Genesis 1:26.

Again, it doesnt. Jesus is not Yahweh, I think we both know that. Why would Jesus be his father? Doesnt make sense does it....

And who is in Gen 1v26? It's not God and Jesus, because Jesus is not born yet. God's talking to somebody. He's discussing something. It's God and the angels. The angels were also involved with creation. Scripture tells us that the angels are the "fingers of God". We also know that in alot of cases in scripture, Elohim is also the angels. Jesus was made lower than the angels or "Elohim" in the org lang. And there are more verses like that too.....

Col 1v16 is not saying that Jesus was the creator of the universe, GOD was our creator and did things with His son in mind. Yahweh is the creator of everything. Even David knew that in the Psalms. David is not thinking that it was Jesus, he knew that it was his God that created everything. David also knew that "from him" (2Sam 7) the Messiah would come. He was NEVER told that the messiah was already here and pre-existed before his birth.

And please, stop twisting my words.......

 

[Desert Snake]

Ok, I really dont know where this is coming from. Because of your beliefs, your stating I'm making this into that and that into this... I"m really not sure where this is coming from.

then you have jesus as the creator, the verses specify that Jesus by your argument would be Yahweh, thusly, Colossians 1:16, then you are saying that they both created?

Again, really not sure why your saying all of this. This is something that I dont even believe in, so why would I even think it or believe in it. Jesus is not the Creator, our Heavenly Father is. And your saying by "my argument" I make Jesus Yahweh? Maybe... it's you that doesnt understand, because I"m not saying any of those things....

Your argument makes Jesus, Yahweh, and makes Jesus Yahweh, at Genesis 1:26.

Again, it doesnt. Jesus is not Yahweh, I think we both know that. Why would Jesus be his father? Doesnt make sense does it....

And who is in Gen 1v26? It's not God and Jesus, because Jesus is not born yet. God's talking to somebody. He's discussing something. It's God and the angels. The angels were also involved with creation. Scripture tells us that the angels are the "fingers of God". We also know that in alot of cases in scripture, Elohim is also the angels. Jesus was made lower than the angels or "Elohim" in the org lang. And there are more verses like that too.....

Col 1v16 is not saying that Jesus was the creator of the universe, GOD was our creator and did things with His son in mind. Yahweh is the creator of everything. Even David knew that in the Psalms. David is not thinking that it was Jesus, he knew that it was his God that created everything. David also knew that "from him" (2Sam 7) the Messiah would come. He was NEVER told that the messiah was already here and pre-existed before his birth.

And please, stop twisting my words.......

Now, since JESUS in spirit form would be the same being, then presumably any argument could be presented in the context of Genesis 1:26.
However, again, this cannot be argued if Jesus isn't Deific, in other words higher than the angels.
Hebrews 1:1-8
Hebrews 1:4

 

[Desert Snake]

Asiatic church and Nestorian concept of the incarnation,
[g-d||human]

Two different natures in one Being, Jesus.

That is just one concept of the divine nature as pertains to Jesus.

 

[Desert Snake]

And please, stop twisting my words.......

It's called a biblical argument, which should match scripture.