COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[3rdAngel]

Seems the quote says that we won't be judged... and goes against what you've been saying all along.

According to the scriptures JESUS has come into this world not to judge us but to save us if we believe and follow his Words. This is why it is written "He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" JOHN 3:18. We are only not judged and condemned if we believe and follow God's Word. It is the believing of God's Word that saves us. If we do not believe and follow God's Word according to JOHN 3:18 the very words we do not believe and follow will condemond us. This is why it is written in JOHN 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world and then in the next verse; JOHN 12:48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. If we reject God's Word it will be our judge and condemn us

Because it's common knowledge. One doesn't have to provide "references" that the sun does, indeed rise in the east.

Not believing and rejecting God's Word is not common sense. It is not believing and rejecting God's Word

The apostolic teachings, though, go beyond the canon texts.

Nonsense. The apostolic teachings are the very teachings of JESUS. Anything that goes against the scriptures and the teachings of JESUS are not apostolic teaching IMO.

Can you prove otherwise? I do not think so

 

[3rdAngel]

You haven't digested a word I've written. So be it. Wallow in your heresy if you feel you must, but don't expect the rest of us to buy into that lie.

I believe that the only heresy is to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. According to the very words of JESUS those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. This is apostolic teaching *ACTS 5:29. It seems you do not believe it. They are God's Words not mine. I know who I believe and follow and it is not you.

 

[sojourner]

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world and then in the next verse; JOHN 12:48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. If we reject God's Word it will be our judge and condemn us

You're conflating "what Jesus is telling them at that time" with "the bible." You fail.

Not believing and rejecting God's Word is not common sense

I'm not believing your interpretation of what the text is saying. And that is common sense.

Nonsense. The apostolic teachings are the very teachings of JESUS. Anything that goes against the scriptures and the teachings of JESUS are not apostolic teaching IMO.

Can you prove otherwise?

And those teachings go beyond that, too.

<Ahem> Didache <Ahem>

 

[sojourner]

I believe that the only heresy is to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God.

What you believe isn't reality. Sola Scriptura is heretical.

 

[3rdAngel]

You're conflating "what Jesus is telling them at that time" with "the bible." You fail.
I'm not believing your interpretation of what the text is saying. And that is common sense. And those teachings go beyond that, too.
<Ahem> Didache <Ahem>

Your just repeating yourself here. The Words of the bible provide us with the Word of God and the very Words of JESUS and the Apostolic teachings. It is you who is conflating "the Word of God". You claim you follow Apostolic teachings, yet it is the Word of God that provide us with the Apostolic teachings of JESUS who they believed and followed. Now you have been provided with the very words of JESUS and the Apostles and you choose to simply ignore them as if they do not exist in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that are not biblical (Apostolic teachings). Matthew 15:3-9 is a warning from the very words of JESUS that says if we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God. I know who I believe and follow my friend and it is not you. The Didache is not the Word of God. It is a source outside of God's Word.

 

[3rdAngel]

What you believe isn't reality. Sola Scriptura is heretical.

Your only repeating yourself and quoting you without proving anything you are claiming. I believe that the only heresy is to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. According to the very words of JESUS those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. This is apostolic teaching *ACTS 5:29. It seems you do not believe it. They are God's Words not mine. I know who I believe and follow and it is not you quoting you because you say so.

 

[sojourner]

The Words of the bible provide us with the Word of God and the very Words of JESUS and the Apostolic teachings.

But not ALL of them. There are extra-biblical teachings, as various writings such as the Didache and Thomas show.

It is you who is conflating "the Word of God". You claim you follow Apostolic teachings, yet it is the Word of God that provide us with the Apostolic teachings of JESUS who they believed and followed.

But, again, not ALL of them.

Now you have been provided with the very words of JESUS and the Apostles and you choose to simply ignore them as if they do not exist in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that are not biblical (Apostolic teachings).

We don't know that these are the "very words of Jesus." We know that someone wrote them down as such, but we also know with a fair amount of certainty, that not all Jesus quotes are authentic.

Matthew 15:3-9 is a warning from the very words of JESUS that says if we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God.

See above. Also, the apostles' teachings that fall outside of biblical text do not fall into the category of what Jesus means by "the teachings of men." That passage has absolutely nothing to do with the apostle's extra-biblical teaching, yet you twist the meaning to try to say that it does.

Your only repeating yourself and quoting you without proving anything you are claiming.

"Following the Protestant churches' separation from the Roman Catholic Church, the relatively new idea of sola scriptura came under serious critique by the Catholic and Orthodox Christians." "The American Roman Catholic writer Dave Armstrong wrote that there are several examples of Jesus and his Apostles accepting oral and extrabiblical tradition in the New Testament" "Armstrong argues that since Jesus and the Apostles acknowledge authoritative Jewish oral tradition, Christians can therefore not dispute oral tradition's legitimacy and authority." (From Wikipedia)

"The heresy of Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) was an invention of the 16th century, which has no actual basis in Scripture." (From Real Roman Catholic)

There's proof. It's a heresy.

 

[3rdAngel]

But not ALL of them. There are extra-biblical teachings, as various writings such as the Didache and Thomas show.

What you mean to say here is that you need tio refer to sources outside of the bible which is considered Gods' Word that is not God's Word in order to support your teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in order to lead others away from the scriptures.

3rdAngel said: ↑ It is you who is conflating "the Word of God". You claim you follow Apostolic teachings, yet it is the Word of God that provide us with the Apostolic teachings of JESUS who they believed and followed.

Your response..

But, again, not ALL of them.

Hmm?? Not all of them what??? Sorry I do not understand how your comment here addresses anything here in regards to what you are quoting from.

We don't know that these are the "very words of Jesus." We know that someone wrote them down as such, but we also know with a fair amount of certainty, that not all Jesus quotes are authentic.

I see. So you do not believe in the bible and the Apostolic teachings written in them that record the words of JESUS yet you appeal to sources outside of the bible as Apostolic teachings. Does this make much sense to you? Sorry I am not following your logic very well here. It sound now that your simply trying to deny the very words of JESUS and the Apostolic teachings written in the bible in favour of sources outside of the bible that are not based on the scriptures.

See above. Also, the apostles' teachings that fall outside of biblical text do not fall into the category of what Jesus means by "the teachings of men." That passage has absolutely nothing to do with the apostle's extra-biblical teaching, yet you twist the meaning to try to say that it does.

So your seeking to find sources outside of the bible that do not agree with the bible in order to practice what you believe because the bible disagrees with what you believe? How does that make any sense. It seems to me that your only seeking to find excuses not to believe and follow the scriptures.

"Following the Protestant churches' separation from the Roman Catholic Church, the relatively new idea of sola scriptura came under serious critique by the Catholic and Orthodox Christians." "The American Roman Catholic writer Dave Armstrong wrote that there are several examples of Jesus and his Apostles accepting oral and extrabiblical tradition in the New Testament" "Armstrong argues that since Jesus and the Apostles acknowledge authoritative Jewish oral tradition, Christians can therefore not dispute oral tradition's legitimacy and authority." (From Wikipedia) "The heresy of Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) was an invention of the 16th century, which has no actual basis in Scripture." (From Real Roman Catholic) There's proof. It's a heresy.

The protestant reformation took place because the Mother Church departed from the Apostolic teachings from the Word of God (the scriptures). It was a calling back of God's people to believe and follow the scriptures and the Apostolic teachings and stop following man made traditions and teachings that were breaking the commandments of God back to following what God says. All you have provided above are links to Roman Catholic sources that are not biblical. How is that a non biased viewpoint when for a Christian only God's Word (the scriptures) are the ultimate evidence of what truth is being the Word of God and Apostolic teaching?

To me, I believe, your providing a quote from the Roman Catholic Church in wiki above is like an imaginary argument between two people, one saying "dont follow the devil because doing so will lead you away from God based on the teachings of the scriptures" then the other person provides a quote from the devil outside of the scriptures as their evidence that what was said is not true. Can you see your mistake here? To the Christian his evidence is the Word of God. Your seeking to provide evidence outside of scripture that does not agree with the scriptures when it is the very scriptures alone that are the Word of God and the Apostolic teachings.

Hope this helps

 

[sojourner]

What you mean to say here is that you need tio refer to sources outside of the bible which is considered Gods' Word that is not God's Word in order to support your teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in order to lead others away from the scriptures.

Your response..

Hmm?? Not all of them what??? Sorry I do not understand how your comment here addresses anything here in regards to what you are quoting from.

I see. So you do not believe in the bible and the Apostolic teachings written in them that record the words of JESUS yet you appeal to sources outside of the bible as Apostolic teachings. Does this make much sense to you? Sorry I am not following your logic very well here. It sound now that your simply trying to deny the very words of JESUS and the Apostolic teachings written in the bible in favour of sources outside of the bible that are not based on the scriptures.

So your seeking to find sources outside of the bible that do not agree with the bible in order to practice what you believe because the bible disagrees with what you believe? How does that make any sense. It seems to me that your only seeking to find excuses not to believe and follow the scriptures.

The protestant reformation took place because the Mother Church departed from the Apostolic teachings from the Word of God (the scriptures). It was a calling back of God's people to believe and follow the scriptures and the Apostolic teachings and stop following man made traditions and teachings that were breaking the commandments of God back to following what God says. All you have provided above are links to Roman Catholic sources. That are not biblical how is that a biased viewpoint when for a Christian only God's Word (the scriptures) are the ultimate evidence of what truth is being the Word of God and Apostolic teaching?

To me, I believe, your providing a quote from the Roman Catholic Church in wiki above is like an imaginary argument between two people, one saying "dont follow the devil because doing so will lead you away from God based on the teachings of the scriptures" then the other person provides a quote from the devil outside of the scriptures as their evidence that what was said is not true. Can you see your mistake here? To the Christian his evidence is the Word of God. Your seeking to provide evidence outside of scripture that does not agree with the scriptures when it is the very scriptures alone that are the Word of God and the Apostolic teachings.

Hope this helps

Th foundation for each of your arguments is faulty. I’ve explained that to you, giving you reasons why its faulty. You patently ignore them and continue to post verbatim the faulty arguments. Your posts seem to display an almost pathological need to be right at any cost. Fine. I’ll allow you believe that you are correct. But I’m not going to play the cat and mouse game of illogic with you any further, nor am I going to explain all over again why your foundation is faulty. There are two possibilities: either you have a great difficulty in understanding logic and fact, or you do understand and you’re simply willfully posting garbage for your own entertainment at my expense. Either way, I’m done (as the Bible says) casting my pearls to that particular swine.

“Hope this helps”

 

[74x12]

Indeed, your making an argument no one is making as we both agree this is the new covenant promise. Without God's Spirit no one can understand God's Word *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 17:17: JOHN 7:17. These promises however are conditonal and only given to those who believe and follow what God's Word says *JOHN 8:31-36. It is only those who hear God's Word and follow it that are God's sheep (disciples) *JOHN 10:26:27. According to the scriptures, those who do not hear (believe) and follow God's Word are not his sheep (disciples) *JOHN 10:26. So as I posted earlier, how do we know that we know him?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

God's Spirit only works through the Word of God not outside the Word of God as it is the Spirit of the Word *JOHN 6:63. Those who claim to know God but do not follow what God's Word says are liars and the truth is not in them. It is a simple test to know if someone is following Gods' Word or not and if someone has the truth of God's Word or not. What do you think?

I don't see anything wrong here. But, how do you begin to follow God's Word? Where does it all start?

Numbers 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Joel 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

 

[3rdAngel]

I don't see anything wrong here. But, how do you begin to follow God's Word? Where does it all start?

Numbers 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Joel 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Your question is answered in the very post you are quoting from. Did you read 1 JOHN 2:3-4? What do you think it means?

 

[3rdAngel]

Th foundation for each of your arguments is faulty. I’ve explained that to you, giving you reasons why its faulty. You patently ignore them and continue to post verbatim the faulty arguments. Your posts seem to display an almost pathological need to be right at any cost. Fine. I’ll allow you believe that you are correct. But I’m not going to play the cat and mouse game of illogic with you any further, nor am I going to explain all over again why your foundation is faulty. There are two possibilities: either you have a great difficulty in understanding logic and fact, or you do understand and you’re simply willfully posting garbage for your own entertainment at my expense. Either way, I’m done (as the Bible says) casting my pearls to that particular swine.

“Hope this helps”

I see so your not going to address my post to prove any one of your claims. Your simply going to quote yourself saying "it is faulty" without proving why? Nice rebuttal. This only demonstrates that you cannot prove what you claim and what I have shared with you is true IMO

 

[sojourner]

so your not going to address my post to prove any one of your claims

Already proven. I'm sorry you missed it.

 

[3rdAngel]

Already proven. I'm sorry you missed it.

If you were being honest here I would believe you. Perhaps you can provide a link? If not why say things that are not true?

 

[sojourner]

If you were being honest here I would believe you. Perhaps you can provide a link? If not why say things that are not true?

Thanks for the ad hominem calling me dishonest. That's very helpful in moving the discussion along. I said I had already proven my points; I have done so. You must have missed it. That's all I can do. Some people don't want to believe the evidence that the earth is round, either.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thanks for the ad hominem calling me dishonest. That's very helpful in moving the discussion along. I said I had already proven my points; I have done so. You must have missed it. That's all I can do. Some people don't want to believe the evidence that the earth is round, either.

There was no ad hom comments. You made claims that you have addressed my posts proving your claims are true. I believe you have hand waived and provided opinion without evidence but you have not proven any of your claims here that I am aware of. I have followed the thread closely being the OP. I have not seen a response from you proving your claims. I also gave you the benefit of the doubt and I asked you for a link to show where you believe you have proven your claims so we can discuss it. You have yet to provide a link and when asked will not provide one. To me that is simply makng claims that are not true. If you are being honest provide a link. If not why make claims that are not true? I know you will not provide a link because one does not exist. If it does prove me wrong and I will right away apologise. If you cannot, what do you want me to say? My friend you are welcome to prove your claims and I am happy to consider them but your opinion without evidence is not proof IMO.

 

[74x12]

Indeed, your making an argument no one is making as we both agree this is the new covenant promise. Without God's Spirit no one can understand God's Word *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 17:17: JOHN 7:17. These promises however are conditonal and only given to those who believe and follow what God's Word says *JOHN 8:31-36. It is only those who hear God's Word and follow it that are God's sheep (disciples) *JOHN 10:26:27. According to the scriptures, those who do not hear (believe) and follow God's Word are not his sheep (disciples) *JOHN 10:26. So as I posted earlier, how do we know that we know him?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

God's Spirit only works through the Word of God not outside the Word of God as it is the Spirit of the Word *JOHN 6:63. Those who claim to know God but do not follow what God's Word says are liars and the truth is not in them. It is a simple test to know if someone is following Gods' Word or not and if someone has the truth of God's Word or not. What do you think?

What do you mean by the "Word of God"? You mean written or spoken?

 

[3rdAngel]

What do you mean by the "Word of God"? You mean written or spoken?

Hi 74x12, yes both

 

[3rdAngel]

What do you mean by the "Word of God"? You mean written or spoken?

One is inspired by God and written by Holy men according to the scriptures. The other spoken directly and verbally by God alone without men *EXODUS 20:1-17 (10 commandments) of which God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

 

[Ebionite]

One is inspired by God and written by Holy men according to the scriptures.

How do you distinguish between what is inspired and what isn't?