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Featured COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Only ten were written in stone. And we are talking about what day of the week God made holy. Even without any commandments God still blessed the seventh day and made it holy. No man or church can change that regardless of what some priest may say or some religion may teach.
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The Ten were probably written in stone for Moses to show that they were from God. However, as I mentioned in my last post, there are in reality 613 Commandments. Therefore, it makes no sense for one to insist that the Shabbat Laws (there's several of them) must be followed but that the kosher Laws, for example, need not be. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you doubt this, then let me recommend you take take it to Judaism DIR and ask some of the observant Jews there.

    However, Moses makes it clear that these are for the Israelites, and nowhere in the OT is there a mandate that Gentiles must follow them.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    But not written by God.
    I think you’e confused. Jesus isn’t scripture.
    See? Jesus isn’t “words.”

    More confusion.

    Hmmm... I don’t think you know just what “God’s word” is. Maybe you should stick to government “science” and leave the theology to the professionals.

    It doesn’t speak out against it; it’s for it.

    Yes it is.
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    As I said at the outset, a sola scriptura approach is heretical and not binding on me.

    Again with the heresy.

    No, that’s not what you said. You said that that you agree with history that the Bible supports.

    You implied that scholarship was responsible for Jesus’ death. And you further implicated scholarship with this nonsense that scholarship doesn’t really foster understanding of the texts, which was why Jesus chose fishermen instead of scholars.
    ...as if your belief proves anything. It does not.

    Obviously it doesn’t, or else we wouldn’t need the exegetical process.

    No, that’s not what eisegesis does.

    Many times, context outside fo the texts is needed, such as the context of culture, the context of related texts of the same genre, etc.

    A good exegesis of outside sources reveals that in Revelation, the Lord’s day implies Sunday. This form of exegesis tightens our understanding of what’s actually being talked about. You haven’t done your due diligence in that regard, so you’re woefully confused.

    That’s not How It Works.

    Of course that’s all you’re hearing, because you have selective hearing, which is a great example of ... eisegesis.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Nope. “Grafted on” does not make them accountable to the Judaic law.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The writers of Genesis were certainly talking to someone — and it wasn’t Gentiles. And that’s the important part of the equation.

    Just because the Judaic 10 commandments mention perjury, fraud, theft and murder doesn’t mean that they are the only codes that deal with those things. I’m sure the Gentiles had such codes of their own. Modern Gentiles certainly do.
     
  7. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    According to myth — not history. No one’s changing it. Celebration of the Resurrection has merely been added. Saturday is still the Sabbath for those who choose, but it’s not binding on anyone but observant Jews.
     
  8. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    So you agree people should not lie, cheat, steal or kill but they do not have to remember God's holy day? The important part of the equation is that GOD made one day holy above the other six.
     
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  9. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I have sat in "Christian" churches and heard it said that Sunday is the new sabbath or that Sunday has replaced Saturday. I do not know what you meanby "binding" but when God says to remember the day He made holy, that sounds pretty binding to me.
     
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  10. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    This is getting off topic. We are not discussing dietary laws or the other 600 laws. The subject is the sabbath. No one disagrees that God worked 6 days and rested on the 7th. God alone made this day holy and yold people to remember it as His holy day. You can go to church any day you want but when you say you do not need to respect God's holy day you might as well spit in his face. I would not want to stand before Him on judgement day and say I do not respect the day He made holy. But if anyone wants to take their chances, well that is up to them.
     
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  11. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The important part of the equation is that Gentiles are not bound to observe Judaic law. As I said, other cultural codes include injunctions against murder. We don’t have to observe Judaic law in order to prohibit murder. However, “observing Shabbat” is not included in codes outside the Judaic code.
     
    #811 sojourner, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Yes, but binding only to Jews, because that injunction is found in Judaic culture only. “God said” is “God said, according to Judaic religious authorities.”

    as for your first sentence, they’re patently wrong. Sunday is not shabbat. It has replaced Saturday as a day of observance for Christians who continue in the worship of God, but who are not Jews, but it is not a “replacement” of anything, nor is it “superseding” anything. Gentile Christians don’t observe Shabbat; We celebrate the Eucharist on the first day of the week, just as the apostles did.
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I disagree. God understands that we’re not Jewish, and so does not expect us to be bound by Judaic law.
     
  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Correct but not even Christians of Jewish descent are under the Law of Moses anymore.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    This is rebbinical nonsense. You are confused here between God's "eternal law" (10 commandments) that are our duty of love to God *DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and man *LEVITICUS 19:18 repeated in the new testament by JESUS in *MATTHEW 22:36-40; MATTHEW 19:16-19; MATTHEW 5:17-21 and Paul ROMANS 13:8-10, that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 with the the "SHADOW LAWS" for remission of sins *HEBREWS 10:1-17 written in the MOSAIC book of the old covenant *EXODUS 24:7

    How many commandment do the scriptures say are in God's 10 commandments, made and spoken by God alone and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone? Was it 613, 9 or 10? Here is a hint *EXODUS 34:28; DEUTERONOMY 4:13 and DEUTERONOMY 10:4.

    Your mixing up God's eternal law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is written and made by God alone with the MOSAIC BOOK of the old covenant *EXODUS 24:7 for "remission of sins" that points to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    The "SHADOW" laws *HEBREWS 10:1-17 of MOSES *DEUTERONOMY 21:24-26; EXODUS 24:7 for remission of sins are not God's eternal LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4, that lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. Accoding to God's Word in the new covenant if we knowingly continue to break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Sin (breaking God's LAW) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:4-10. God's 4th commandment Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when we break it and just like everyone of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.
     
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  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You are free to believe as you wish. I believe we all answer only to God come judgement day *ACTS 17:30-31; JOHN 12:47-48. The only heresy according to the scriptures is the one that denies God's Word and does not believe or follow it *JOHN 3:18; LUKE 12:46; HEBREWS 11:6; JOHN 10:26-27; JOHN 8:24.
    Nonsense. I posted to you that I have both the biblical historical texts supported and verified by the historical records to support my position. This is something you simply do not have to support your position and you know it :)
    Nonsense! Your trying to read into my posts (implying) what I am not saying. Sure there were scholars in the days of JESUS that believed and followed God's Word as there were those who crucified him and were the very leaders of the Church who claimed to believe and follow God's Word. Notice that it was those who did not believe and follow God's Word that crucified him. Something to think about.
    I believe I have proven my claims both biblically and historically here in this thread. While you on the other hand have only provided your opinions you cannot prove with scripture because you simply do not believe God's Word that denies yours
    You haven't applied an exegetical process which is letting the scriptures interpret the meaning you have applied an eisegesis process which is reading into the scriptures what the scriptures are not saying or teaching. This is demonstrated by you in trying to say REVELATION 1:10 is in reference to "SUNDAY" or the first day of the week being "THE LORDS DAY". You cannot show me anywhere from any scripture in the new or old testaments that "THE LORDS DAY" is in reference to "SUNDAY" or the first day of the week. Yet you have been shown through the scriptures alone "exegesis" that the scriptures alone teach that "THE LORDS DAY" is "THE SABBATH DAY" in MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28 with "THE LORDS DAY" in the Greek meaning κυριακός From G2962; belonging to the Lord (Jehovah or Jesus): - Lord's or the LORD'S ownership of G2250 ἡμέρα the day.
    As posted earlier, all I am hearing here are your excuses not to believe God's Word and making untruthful statements not relavant to our conversation or what you have done in our conversation. The translation of the bible have been already compiled by many experts in Hebrew and Greek and provided to us already today in many translations so that what we have today is very close to the original.

    What you have provided in this discussion is in relation to exegesis? Nothing! If you disagree with me here I challenge you to provide a link to one of your posts that you claim you have provided exegesis to scripture. If you cannot why make claims that are not truthful?

    Hope this helps :)
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Actually he was talking with ADAM and EVE as they were made before the Sabbath. They were the father and mother of mankind for which he made the Sabbath day of rest.
     
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, they were written by God on stone with his own finger for a reason. They are the standard of what RIGHTEOUSNESS is *PSALMS 119:172 and what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and according to the new testament scriptures if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.
    In my understanding of the scriptures there are many other laws besides the 10 commandments that are written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7 that are still requirements for God's people and these include dietry and health laws as well as the other laws the help define God's LAW (10 commandments).

    As posted earlier though, your mixing up God's eternal law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is, which was written and made by God alone with the MOSAIC BOOK of the old covenant *EXODUS 24:7 for the laws for "remission of sins" (ceremonial laws for sin offerings, annual feast days, Sanctuary laws and Levitical Priestood) that points to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new.

    Your mixing up God's "eternal law" (10 commandments) are our duty of love to God *DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and man *LEVITICUS 19:18 repeated in the new testament by JESUS in *MATTHEW 22:36-40; MATTHEW 19:16-19; MATTHEW 5:17-21 and Paul ROMANS 13:8-10, that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 with the the MOSAIC "SHADOW LAWS" for remission of sins *HEBREWS 10:1-17 written in the MOSAIC book of the old covenant *EXODUS 24:7

    Ask yourself the question how many commandment do the scriptures teach that are in God's 10 commandments, made and spoken by God alone and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone? Was it 613, 9 or 10? Here is a hint read *EXODUS 34:28; DEUTERONOMY 4:13 and DEUTERONOMY 10:4.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your post here is an empty claim (strawman) that no one is talking about and does not address the content you are responding to.

    As posted earlier, according to the scriptures both ISRAEL and a JEW in the new testament are all those who believe and follow God's Word. Gentile believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:13-27.

    ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

    God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    As posted earlier through the new covenant scriptures, Gentile believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEAL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEAL accoding to the new covenant promise given in JEREMIAH 31:31-34 and repeated in the new covenant scriptures in HEBREWS 8:10-12 you have no part in the new covenant. Being a part of and grafted in to God's ISRAEAL makes gentile believers no longer gentiles but a part of God's ISRAEAL defined in the scriptures as all those who believe and follow Gods' Word and bound by faith to believe and follow what God says.

    Hope this helps :)
     
    #820 3rdAngel, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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