COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[3rdAngel]

1. I'm sure you do the same thing. Are you saying you read every word I say, slowly and carefully, taking great care to completely understand it? I just don't think you are.

Actually generally no. I take the time to read and respond to your posts and questions section by section and scripture by scripture. Otherwise I could not understand what you are talking about or could I by God's grace respond to what you are telling me.

2. I'm sorry, but I'm going to skip your preaching parts. Any time you attack me personally or try to convert me (such as when you repeatedly tell me that I don't understand what the scripture says), I'm going to just skip those parts. That's what I mean by skimming. Such parts are irrelevant to our conversation.

Well this is simply more of that hand waiving I was talking about with you earlier. I have only provided scripture in support of what I am sharing with you from the Old Testament prophets in support of the claims I am making which are from the very scriptures you claim to follow and believe and you call this preaching? I would call this 'hand-waving', or outright dismissal and a good example of what I was sharing with you earlier about how you address my posts and the scriptures shared with you. You are free to do and believe as you wish. Using scripture as proof to the statments and claims shared with you is not preaching but supplying suppoting documented evidence to support what is being shared with you. Hand waiving and outright denial and dismissal of the scriptures do not make them dissappear.

Simply put, the Septuagint was never quoted until Christians began quoting it. Also, the differences in meaning mysteriously support their mythos. Third, it is basically the Christian scholars that yell for an earlier date -- it is important for their credibility that the Septuagint exist prior to their movement, as it gives legitimacy to their quotes.

Once again you have not stated any facts to support your claims and opinions. I asked you how do you know what you are saying is true when even the hisotrical scholars do not even agree on the timelines. You just provided your opinion to support what you believe. Now if the scholars cannot agree how do you know for sure that what you are claiming is true? Also, as posted earlier if ISRAEL having the correct interpretation of the scripture could not understand God's Word and follow it what makes you think only having a correct interpretation is all that is required to understand Gods' Word? Let me ask you my friend, Can you have a correct translation and not understand God's Word? Also, can you have a mostly correct translation and have a correct understanding of God's Word? If you answer yes than what is the difference as to how a person comes to an understanding of Gods' Word? Now please do not hide or hand waive this one. I can provide you with many scriptures showing that those who had Gods' Word (Nation of ISRAEL) had God's Word but did not follow or understand it which I have not provided here so please honestly consider these questions and let me know your answers.

3rdAngel said: ↑ Your simply stating that the translation from the Hebrew to the Greek is inferior because it is not the original. God's promise to his people is that if they seek him and believe his Word they will know the truth if it is of God or not. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. If you do not have God's Spirit even if you have a perfect version of the scritptures and do not believe and follow God's Word you will still walk contrary to God's Word. This is what your fathers did and why they rejected the coming of the Messiah and the very scriptures that fortold of his coming.

Your response...

What does that have to do with the superiority of the original language manuscripts? Look, no scholar, NO real scholar debates that translations are inferior to originals. Something is always lost. You don't even have to be a scholar to know this -- anyone who has had experience translating knows this.
I look forward to hearing from you again!

I feel I am getting another hand waiving here again my friend. How does your response respond to what you are quoting from? Your simply ignoring what is posted and shared with you to talk about something no one is talking about. Where did I ever say to you or where have a claimed that a translation of an original language is superior to the original language? If I never made such claims why do you pretend that I have? Now even if somethings are lost in some sections of a translation, it does not mean that everything is lost and not true to the original meaning and language. For me personally I prayerfully use many translations considering both context and both the Hebrew and Greek (as I believe the Messiah has come in JESUS and the new testament/Covenant *JEREMIAH 31:31-34). Are you really trying to argue that if I sincerely want to seek and follow and believe God's Word I am not able to because I do not understand Hebrew yet I have the very Hebrew Torah and God's Word translated into my language so I can read it and prayerfully seek God through it everyday as opposed to someone who has the original manuscripts but does not seek to know or follow God's Word as your fathers have done for 1000's of years already? I say this with all kindness and respect. You know I have the supporting scriptures to prove what I am sharing with you here.

 

[RabbiO]

1) I have the very Hebrew Torah and God's Word translated into my language so I can read it and prayerfully seek God through it everyday as opposed to someone who has the original manuscripts but does not seek to know or follow God's Word as your fathers have done for 1000's of years already?

2) I say this with all kindness and respect.

1)The old "Jews are spiritually ignorant and/or spiritually blind and, therefore, unable to understand their own scriptures" argument. That's worthy of only one response -

2) Is this where you offer to sell us a bridge in Brooklyn?

 

[3rdAngel]

Hello RabbiO nice to meet you

1)The old "Jews are spiritually ignorant and/or spiritually blind and, therefore, unable to understand their own scriptures" argument. That's worthy of only one response -

These are not my words but are from the very scriptures given by the prophets as applied to the nation of ISRAEL who rejected God's Word....

"His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yes, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come you, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant." *ISAIAH 56:10-12

"Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness. None calls for justice, nor any pleads for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eats of their eggs dies, and that which is crushed breaks out into a viper. Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands. Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whoever goes therein shall not know peace. Therefore is judgment far from us, neither does justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men." * ISAIAH 58:1-10.

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see you indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed." *ISAIAH 6:8-10

Although I believe God has always had his faithful few and that the above scriptures apply to all those who profess to believe and follow God's Word even today, it is God's Word to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Those who do not see and do not hear cannot follow as spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Do you believe these scriptures (and I can post more if you like), and if you do why do you say my earlier post was not worthy of a response?

3rdAngel said: ↑ Are you really trying to argue that if I sincerely want to seek and follow and believe God's Word I am not able to because I do not understand Hebrew yet I have the very Hebrew Torah and God's Word translated into my language so I can read it and prayerfully seek God through it everyday as opposed to someone who has the original manuscripts but does not seek to know or follow God's Word as your fathers have done for 1000's of years already? I say this with all kindness and respect. You know I have the supporting scriptures to prove what I am sharing with you here.

Your response..

Is this where you offer to sell us a bridge in Brooklyn?

Is your response simply to avoid answering the question asked?

 

[metis]

1)The old "Jews are spiritually ignorant and/or spiritually blind and, therefore, unable to understand their own scriptures" argument. That's worthy of only one response -

2) Is this where you offer to sell us a bridge in Brooklyn?

And how many times have many here been subjected to the kind of religious bigotry that you're respond to with the above?

Fortunately, many if not most Christians don't stoop to such a low nowadays.

Have a good Shabbos, my friend.

 

[3rdAngel]

And how many times have many here been subjected to the kind of religious bigotry that you're respond to with the above?

Fortunately, many if not most Christians don't stoop to such a low nowadays.

Have a good Shabbos, my friend.

What are you talking about? Only God's Word has been shared here in love. You not believing it does not make it untrue as it is God's Word not mine. You are free to believe as you wish. This is between you and God and I do not judge you. God is Love and it is because of love God's Word is shared. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. I do not judge you or anyone here. It is the Word of God that is our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48. Many are called but few are chosen. God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow. It is hard to see and hear when we close our eyes and ears to hearing what God says.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[metis]

So, "God's Word" does not include God's promises made in the Old Testament, the Abrahamic Covenant that God says that it is "forever" and "perpetual"?

How much damage has been done historically against the Jewish community based on reflecting this kind of bigotry? How much hatred has been spewed forth by this "replacement theology" that defies what is found in the Tanakh?

Fortunately, many Christian denominations nowadays don't reflect this kind of harmful nonsense, especially since Jesus taught the "law of love", not the "law of judgmentalism and bigotry". It is God's role to judge on this, not ours.

 

[pearl]

Only God's Word has been shared here in love.

What exactly do you mean by the Word of God?

 

[3rdAngel]

So, "God's Word" does not include God's promises made in the Old Testament, the Abrahamic Covenant that God says that it is "forever" and "perpetual"?

There are many promises in the Old testament scriptures that are for God's people today. However, we are in the New Covenant now and not under the Old Covenant which is established on better promises.. Hebrews 8:6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

How much damage has been done historically against the Jewish community based on reflecting this kind of bigotry? How much hatred has been spewed forth by this "replacement theology" that defies what is found in the Tanakh?

Why make empty claims that are not true? It is not bigotry to share God's Word if someone does not agree with it than it is between that person and God. I do not judge them. I have only shared Gods' Word with you but you do not believe it. So your argument is with God not me. There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is simply a term invented by men by those who do not believe the scriptures pointing to the coming of the Messiah revealed in JESUS and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 to all those who believe and follow God's Word.

Fortunately, many Christian denominations nowadays don't reflect this kind of harmful nonsense, especially since Jesus taught the "law of love", not the "law of judgmentalism and bigotry". It is God's role to judge on this, not ours.

I believe that the scriptures teach God has his people in every church who are living up to all the light (knowledge) that God has revealed to them. The scriptures teach that as we grow in God's grace, in times of ignorance, when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin *JAMES 4:17, but when God gives us a knowledge of His truth through his Word he expects us to believe and follow it *ACTS 17:30-31. At this time (when God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we reject it) we willfully sin after we have been given a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment to come *HEBEREWS 10:26-27 because those who willfilly deny God's Word, reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Your claims of bigotry and judgment are simply your empty words that have no truth in them. According to the scriptures, God's people are those who believe and follow God's Word (present tense) and have not wilfully rejected His Word when He sends them a knowledge of his truth. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word then we are not God's people but simply unbelievers.

God's Word tells us not to judge according to outward appearance but to judge righteous judgment *JOHN 7:24. None of us are righteous *ROMANS 3:10. Only Gods Word is righteous *ROMANS 3:21-22; JOHN 1:1-4; 14; ISAIAH 45:19; PSALMS 119:123; PSALMS 119:172; PSALMS 119:137; PSALMS 119:144. I do not judge you or anyone here according to outward appearance *ROMANS 2:1-13. It is the Word of God that has been shared with you but you do not believe it. It is the Word of God that is our righteous judgment that we are to judge by because it is the Word of God that will be our very judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Now if I only share the Word of God with you, who is your Judge me or the scriptures you claim to believe? If you say you believe the scriptures what is it that has been written here that is not God's Word and if it is God's Word, why do you not believe it?

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

 

[3rdAngel]

What exactly do you mean by the Word of God?

Hello pcarl, nice to meet you. Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4. All scripture *2 TIMOTHY 3:16

 

[metis]

There are many promises in the Old testament scriptures that are for God's people today. However, we are in the New Covenant now and not under the Old Covenant which is established on better promises.. Hebrews 8:6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Why make empty claims that are not true? It is not bigotry to share God's Word if someone does not agree with it than it is between that person and God. I do not judge them. I have only shared Gods' Word with you but you do not believe it. So your argument is with God not me. There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is simply a term invented by men by those who do not believe the scriptures pointing to the coming of the Messiah revealed in JESUS and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 to all those who believe and follow God's Word.

I believe that the scriptures teach God has his people in every church who are living up to all the light (knowledge) that God has revealed to them. The scriptures teach that as we grow in God's grace, in times of ignorance, when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin *JAMES 4:17, but when God gives us a knowledge of His truth through his Word he expects us to believe and follow it *ACTS 17:30-31. At this time (when God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we reject it) we willfully sin after we have been given a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment to come *HEBEREWS 10:26-27 because those who willfilly deny God's Word, reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Your claims of bigotry and judgment are simply your empty words that have no truth in them. According to the scriptures, God's people are those who believe and follow God's Word (present tense) and have not wilfully rejected His Word when He sends them a knowledge of his truth. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word then we are not God's people but simply unbelievers.

God's Word tells us not to judge according to outward appearance but to judge righteous judgment *JOHN 7:24. None of us are righteous *ROMANS 3:10. Only Gods Word is righteous *ROMANS 3:21-22; JOHN 1:1-4; 14; ISAIAH 45:19; PSALMS 119:123; PSALMS 119:172; PSALMS 119:137; PSALMS 119:144. I do not judge you or anyone here according to outward appearance *ROMANS 2:1-13. It is the Word of God that has been shared with you but you do not believe it. It is the Word of God that is our righteous judgment that we are to judge by because it is the Word of God that will be our very judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Now if I only share the Word of God with you, who is your Judge me or the scriptures you claim to believe? If you say you believe the scriptures what is it that has been written here that is not God's Word and if it is God's Word, why do you not believe it?

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

Your response is not even remotely logical, so the word-salad above is probably just to impress yourself and maybe a few others. On top of that, you virtually ignore my reference to "perpetual" and "forever", which are OT references to the Abrahamic Covenant. I'll try and remember to expand on that a bit later.

Fortunately, many Christian denominations now recognize and condemn the kind of bigotry you espouse, with some of them apologizing for the harm they've done. But you seem to relish in that harm and bigotry that's been caused for centuries now and which is simply an act of ignorance and bigotry with your condescending nonsense.

I will expand on this shortly as I'm going to encourage taking a step back and looking beyond the "trees" so as to encompass the "woods".

 

[pearl]

Hello pcarl, nice to meet you. Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4. All scripture *2 TIMOTHY 3:16

The only 'mouth' God has is human. So the 'word' in the Word of God is human.
Unless you mean that God dictated while man operated as a sort of robot as he wrote.

 

[metis]

OK, now that I'm done with my brunch [tandoori chicken and matar paneer], I'll expand on my last post, but this one is for all whom may be interested in citing their opinions. I'll ask five questions, provide some short ground rules, and then I'll wait until tomorrow before I chime in.

1.Are the Jewish and/or Christian scriptures objective history?

2.If one thinks they can, please provide objectively-derived evidence that the Jewish and/or Christian scriptures are "divinely inspired".

3.If one thinks they are "divinely inspired", are all the verses as such, and what objective evidence does one have for that opinion?

4.If one is an observant Jew or a believing Christian, can one provide objective evidence that the Bhagavad Gita cannot be "divinely inspired"?

5.Can one provide objective evidence that the Bible is totally inerrant?

Now, it's going to be tempting for some here to try and justify their position by spewing out Bible verses, but that really doesn't provide answers to the above since it's the veracity of the accuracy of the Bible that is being questioned.

Finally, as just a point of clarification, I read the Bible literally every day of the week, so obviously my motive with the above is not to denigrate it. Nor do I believe that the Bible is the sole source of inspiration.

Therefore, the purpose of this post is not to condemn Judaism nor Christianity, nor is it my motive to try and cite who supposedly is a "true Jew" or a "true Christian" and whom is not, unlike at least one person who's been posting on this thread.

See yas tomorrow on this thread.

 

[3rdAngel]

Your response is not even remotely logical, so the word-salad above is probably just to impress yourself and maybe a few others. On top of that, you virtually ignore my reference to "perpetual" and "forever", which are OT references to the Abrahamic Covenant. I'll try and remember to expand on that a bit later.

The natural man receives not the Spirit of God neither can he know them because they are foolishness unto him. The post you are quoting from addresses everything you have claimed in the post you are quoting from with scripture alone. These are God's Word not mine so your argument is with God not me. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you as we all answer only to God come judgment day. I did not ignore anything you have posted. Perpetual means forevers or everlasting. Why would you think a perpetual law is not ongoing because it has application to the new?

Fortunately, many Christian denominations now recognize and condemn the kind of bigotry you espouse, with some of them apologizing for the harm they've done. But you seem to relish in that harm and bigotry that's been caused for centuries now and which is simply an act of ignorance and bigotry with your condescending nonsense.

As posted earlier.. Why make empty claims that are not true? It is not bigotry to share God's Word if someone does not agree with it than it is between that person and God. I do not judge them. I have only shared Gods' Word with you and some othere but you do not believe it. So your argument is with God not me. There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is simply a term invented by men by those who do not believe the scriptures pointing to the coming of the Messiah revealed in JESUS and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 to all those who believe and follow God's Word.

I believe that the scriptures teach God has his people in every church who are living up to all the light (knowledge) that God has revealed to them. The scriptures teach that as we grow in God's grace, in times of ignorance, when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin *JAMES 4:17, but when God gives us a knowledge of His truth through his Word he expects us to believe and follow it *ACTS 17:30-31. At this time (when God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we reject it) we willfully sin after we have been given a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment to come *HEBEREWS 10:26-27 because those who willfilly deny God's Word, reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Your claims of bigotry and judgment are simply your empty words that have no truth in them. According to the scriptures, God's people are those who believe and follow God's Word (present tense) and have not wilfully rejected His Word when He sends them a knowledge of his truth. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word then we are not God's people but simply unbelievers.

God's Word tells us not to judge according to outward appearance but to judge righteous judgment *JOHN 7:24. None of us are righteous *ROMANS 3:10. Only Gods Word is righteous *ROMANS 3:21-22; JOHN 1:1-4; 14; ISAIAH 45:19; PSALMS 119:123; PSALMS 119:172; PSALMS 119:137; PSALMS 119:144. I do not judge you or anyone here according to outward appearance *ROMANS 2:1-13. It is the Word of God that has been shared with you but you do not believe it. It is the Word of God that is our righteous judgment that we are to judge by because it is the Word of God that will be our very judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Now if I only share the Word of God with you, who is your Judge me or the scriptures you claim to believe? If you say you believe the scriptures what is it that has been written here that is not God's Word and if it is God's Word, why do you not believe it?

If you take a step back, you will only see I have been sharing God's Word with you.

 

[3rdAngel]

The only 'mouth' God has is human. So the 'word' in the Word of God is human.
Unless you mean that God dictated while man operated as a sort of robot as he wrote.

According to the scriptures God directly in person spoke the 10 Commandments to his people *EXODUS 20 and JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and yes God also speaks to people to share his Word *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; 2 PETER 1:21

God bless

 

[metis]

The natural man receives not the Spirit of God neither can he know them because they are foolishness unto him. The post you are quoting from addresses everything you have claimed in the post you are quoting from with scripture alone. These are God's Word not mine so your argunent is with God not me. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you as we all answer only to God come judgment day. I did not ignore anything you have posted. Perpetual means forevers or everlasting. Why would you think a perpetual law is not ongoing because it has application to the new?

As posted earlier.. Why make empty claims that are not true? It is not bigotry to share God's Word if someone does not agree with it than it is between that person and God. I do not judge them. I have only shared Gods' Word with you but you do not believe it. So your argument is with God not me. There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is simply a term invented by men by those who do not believe the scriptures pointing to the coming of the Messiah revealed in JESUS and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 to all those who believe and follow God's Word.

I believe that the scriptures teach God has his people in every church who are living up to all the light (knowledge) that God has revealed to them. The scriptures teach that as we grow in God's grace, in times of ignorance, when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin *JAMES 4:17, but when God gives us a knowledge of His truth through his Word he expects us to believe and follow it *ACTS 17:30-31. At this time (when God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we reject it) we willfully sin after we have been given a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment to come *HEBEREWS 10:26-27 because those who willfilly deny God's Word, reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Your claims of bigotry and judgment are simply your empty words that have no truth in them. According to the scriptures, God's people are those who believe and follow God's Word (present tense) and have not wilfully rejected His Word when He sends them a knowledge of his truth. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word then we are not God's people but simply unbelievers.

God's Word tells us not to judge according to outward appearance but to judge righteous judgment *JOHN 7:24. None of us are righteous *ROMANS 3:10. Only Gods Word is righteous *ROMANS 3:21-22; JOHN 1:1-4; 14; ISAIAH 45:19; PSALMS 119:123; PSALMS 119:172; PSALMS 119:137; PSALMS 119:144. I do not judge you or anyone here according to outward appearance *ROMANS 2:1-13. It is the Word of God that has been shared with you but you do not believe it. It is the Word of God that is our righteous judgment that we are to judge by because it is the Word of God that will be our very judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Now if I only share the Word of God with you, who is your Judge me or the scriptures you claim to believe? If you say you believe the scriptures what is it that has been written here that is not God's Word and if it is God's Word, why do you not believe it?

If you take a step back, you will only see I have been sharing God's Word with you.

I had a very strong suspicion that you wouldn't be willing to response to the questions asked, thus avoiding them and giving a "sermon" instead that was not called for. Maybe actually try and answer the questions, and then, and only then, maybe we can have a serious discussion.

 

[3rdAngel]

I had a very strong suspicion that you wouldn't be willing to response to the questions asked, thus avoiding them and giving a "sermon" instead that was not called for. Maybe actually try and answer the questions, and then, and only then, maybe we can have a serious discussion.

You haven't posted any questions relevant to the OP. They are simply off topic. Your welcome to start another thread if you like. This one is on Col 2:16 and you seem to be avoiding it. If you would like to let me know how your questions are relavant to the OP, I am sure I would be happy to discuss them with you. The previous post was indeed called for to show from the scriptures what you were claiming in relation to the scriptures I was sharing with you and others had no basis in truth. I hope you can receive these scriptures in the Spirit it was given (love) and that they may be a blessing to you. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

 

[metis]

You haven't posted any questions relevant to the OP. They are simply off topic. Your welcome to start another thread if you like. This one is on Col 2:16 and you seem to be avoiding it. If you would like to let me know how your questions are relavant to the OP, I am sure I would be happy to discuss them with you. The previous post was indeed called for to show from the scriptures what you were claiming in relation to the scriptures I was sharing with you and others had no basis in truth. I hope you can receive these scriptures in the Spirit it was given (love) and that they may be a blessing to you. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

What I posted was not "off topic" since it relates to how one looks at the scriptures, which is actually the foundation of why there are so many disagreements, including here and also what started with the posting of the OP.

Nope, what you are doing is called a "cop-out", and I was really quite certain that you would do that. One could answer the five questions briefly in even just one post, and yet you just had to design an excuse to avoid them-- and I think it's likely clear to all reading what you posted why you won't answer them. .

Prove me wrong..

 

[3rdAngel]

What I posted was not "off topic" since it relates to how one looks at the scriptures, which is actually the foundation of why there are so many disagreements, including here and also what started with the posting of the OP.

Nope, what you are doing is called a "cop-out", and I was really quite certain that you would do that. One could answer the five questions briefly in even just one post, and yet you just had to design an excuse to avoid them-- and I think it's likely clear to all reading what you posted why you won't answer them. .

Prove me wrong..

The only "COPOUT" I believe is on your side as your trying to change the topic of the OP with your questions in your words to; "how one looks at the scriptures, which is actually the foundation of why there are so many disagreements" The topic of this OP is COL 2:16 are you being told the truth. You seem to be wanting to discuss anything else except the OP. I think it is clear to anyone reading your only wanting to change the topic of the OP because you are not able to respond to the scriptures provided because you know the OP is true having some background in Hebrew and the feast days and annual Sabbath days. As I said earlier I am happy to go off topic if you can show how your questions relate to the OP but so far you haven't.

 

[metis]

Since I asked the question towards others, to be honest about this I need to answer my own questions with where I'm coming from and why, and I'm gonna be brief. After that, I'll conclude with a follow-up post as to why this is so important when considering the OP and some of the responses to it.

1.Are the Jewish and/or Christian scriptures objective history?

Clearly not. The OT centers around the Israelite/Jewish community, thus not other communities unless the former was affected by them. The NT centers around the early Christian community, thus not other communities unless the former was affected by them. Therefore, it is their perspectives that we read.

Thus, these are subjective, not objective, sources.

2.If one thinks they can, please provide objectively-derived evidence that the Jewish and/or Christian scriptures are "divinely inspired".

How does one actually go about establishing "divine inspiration"? How does one actually go about determining just exactly how much may the scriptures be "divinely inspired"? Jewish and Christian theologians are all over the place on this.

3.If one thinks they are "divinely inspired", are all the verses as such, and what objective evidence does one have for that opinion?

Theologians note that there are what they call "variations" on the same narrative whereas thus, at least on the surface, some don't match. An example of this are the variations of the women's visit to Jesus' tomb whereas no two gospel accounts agree. However, this doesn't mean that the event in general didn't happen, only that there appears to be different takes on precisely what took place.

4.If one is an observant Jew or a believing Christian, can one provide objective evidence that the Bhagavad Gita cannot be "divinely inspired"?

Logically, how would one supposedly be able to do this? I would think that we would have to have the "mind" of God. I've read the Gita, and I do believe it quite inspirational in terms of faith depending on how one interprets it.


5.Can one provide objective evidence that the Bible is totally inerrant?

Did God forget how to spell? I ask this because in the oldest versions of John's Gospel there are a great many spelling errors within the Koine Greek that's used, according to Sir William Barclay, notable Anglican theologian who authored numerous excellent commentaries.

 

[metis]

Since I taught comparative religions for quite a few years, I visited a great many different places of worship, and in the vast majority of cases I felt quite comfortable as these many denominations and religions honestly do try and explain how this universe got put together and how do we as humans fit into that picture, including teaching basic morality. Yes, there are differences, but if we just focus on these differences and ignore the similarities, we can all too easily slip into demonizing other religious groups and even the people within them. To put it another way, how many people have been killed in the name of God(s)?

With that, I am the least comfortable with denominations that push the "my way or the highway" approach as if they supposedly know all the answers to the important questions. At a few fundamentalist Protestant services, as I sat there with my yarmulke on (it was on Shabbat), I was basically told by the pastors that I was going to hell because I wasn't Christian-- and this was at funerals!

OTOH, if we understand that we as theists are really all trying to make sense of all this, then we will tend to be much less judgmental and condescending. This does not mean that we have to give up with we personally believe to be more correct, but that we should see others as being brothers and sisters, and this includes those whom are not theistically inclined.

Anyhow, that's my take on this, and I will try and answer any questions some may have since I had to be so brief with the above.