COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[Father Heathen]

I did not say so God did *John 14:6; John 17:17.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I did not say so God did *John 14:6; John 17:17.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. I have not spoken my own words.

Again, your truth. It’s not everyone’s and it’s not mine.

Your intent appears to be to preach that your truth is the only truth. Yeah...we don’t do that here. If that’s your intent, take it elsewhere.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi 3rdAngel, You agree, therefore, that the first commandment given to humanity (Genesis 2:16) was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This means that God's sanctification of the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) was not a commandment to humanity to rest or worship on the Sabbath. Had it been a commandment to do so, it would have been the first commandment given by God to mankind.

BEFORE the fall of mankind there was no sin. Mankind was in perfect harmony with God and walked with God in love. There was no sin and no knowledge of what sin was *Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Do you agree? *Yes/No. If not why not?

God said you can eat of all the trees of the garden but the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil you shall not eat thereof in the day that you eat there of you shall surely die *Genesis 2:17
Do you agree? *Yes/No. If not why not?

Mankind did not have the knowledge of good and evil until after they choose not to believe God's Word and believed instead the word of the serpent and ate of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil;
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. *Genesis 3:22. Do you agree? *Yes/No. If not why not?

Ok let's bring it all together. The 10 commandments are the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS given to mankind AFTER THE FALL of mankind *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4
Before mankind sinned they were in perfect harmony with God and walked with God in love and had no knowledge of sin because they did not sin. They only had a knowledge of what sin was after they had chosen not to believe God's Word and do what God told them not to do.

So correct BEFORE sin there was no need for a moral law of LOVE to God and Man as mankind (Adam and Eve) already had love to God and each other.

JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27 Do you agree? *Yes/No. If not why not?

God made the Sabbath for mankind on the "seventh day of creation" at which time he "rested" on the seventh day" and "blessed the seventh day". The Hebrew Word used here for bless is בּרך; bârak H1288 which is bestowed on the "seventh day" means to bless as an act of adoration, as a benefit. God blessed the saventh day for mankind as a memorial of creation and as a day of rest which he set apart the seventh day from all the other days of the week and made it a "holy day" H6942 קדשׁ qâdash means to obseve, appoint, to consecrate, to keep holy.

So God set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week and blessed the "seventh day" as a day for mankind as a day of rest to observe and consecrate and to keep as a holy day as an act of adoration to God for the benefit of mankind. Do you agree? *Yes/No. If not why not?

God's 10 commandments were not given to mankind until "AFTER" the fall of mankind as "BEFORE" the fall there was no sin as man walked in perfect harmony with God and obeyed God and had no knowledge of what sin was (disobedience to Gods' Word).

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

So now we look to see when God's commandment to rest, or cease work, was given. In Exodus 16:23, Moses says, 'To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:' The words of Exodus 16:23 are the first time that rest and cessation of work (for humans) has been mentioned. God has not commanded any human being to rest on the Sabbath before this time. The conclusion must be that, before God's covenant was made with Moses in the wilderness, there was no Sabbath observance. If God had wanted Sabbath observance from the time of creation, He would have made it clear in his Word! If you truly love God's Word, and I believe you do, then you should be honest enough to accept that we cannot insert commandments where commandments do not exist. Any commandments that were given by God to Noah, Abraham, and others, were specific and were recorded. You cannot claim that a 'spoken word' exists beyond, and in contradiction to, that which is explicitly recorded. So we now have a clear and unequivocal position regarding Sabbath observance. The law for Israelites to cease work and keep the seventh day holy came in with Moses. It did not exist before Moses.

Your conclusion is only an assumption. According to God's Word, JESUS says, the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for mankind when there was NO SIN, NO LAW, NO MOSES, NO JEW and NO ISRAEL. Therefore Adam and Eve had God's Sabbath being the Father and mother of all mankind.

Before the written word of God there was the spoken Word of God which God gave to his people who believed and followed his Word....

GENESIS 26:5 Because Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.

The Hebrew word used for LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

God's people knew about God's laws well before the written Word by the Spoken Word of God.

Hope this helps.

 

[74x12]

I did not say so God did *John 14:6; John 17:17.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. I have not spoken my own words.

You really want to claim that verse for yourself? John the baptist was clearly speaking of Jesus Christ who is the only one God gives the Spirit to without measure.

As we read in Romans 12:3 we should think of ourselves soberly as every one has been given a measure of faith by God.

 

[pearl]

Well said, and thank you so much for the above.

You're welcome. However I still have a lingering question concerning the '613 precepts' as to there origin. I know you have stated that they were part of the Sinai Covenant, but can you explain this?; By this do you mean they are all encompassed within the 'Ten Words'?
"Six hundred and thirteen commandments were given to Moses, three hundred and sixty five negative ones, corresponding to the number of the days of the solar year, and two hundred forty eight positive commandments, corresponding to the parts of man's body." "David came and reduced them to eleven; A Psalm of David; Lord, who shall sojourn in thy tabernacle and who shall dwell in thy holy mountain?
I He who walks uprightly and ii works righteousness and iii speaks truth in his heart and iv has no slander on his tongue and v does no evil to his fellow and vi does not take up a reproach against his neighbors vii in whose eyes a vile person is despised but viii honors those who fear the Lord. ix He swears to his own hurt and changes not x He does not take a bribe against the innocent (Ps15).
Isaiah came and reduced them to six; I He who walks righteously and ii speaks uprightly, iii he who despises the gain of oppressions, 1v shakes his hand from holding bribes, v stops his ear from hearing of blood vi and shuts his eyes from looking upon evil, he shall dwell on high (Isa 33:25-26).
Micah came and reduced them to three; It has been told you, man, what is good, and what the Lord demands from you, I only to do justly and ii to love mercy and iii to walk humbly before God. (Mic 6:8)
Amos came and reduced them to a single one, as it is said, For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel, Seek Me and live. Habakkuk further came and based them on one, as it said, But the righteous shall live by his faith (Hab 2:4)
Babylonian Talmud Makkot 24A-B

Is this not what Jesus tells the 'young man' he must do, 'follow Me'?

 

[3rdAngel]

Onwards we travel. Pentecost has come and gone, and the new covenant is being preached. Suddenly, adherence to the Friday / Saturday Sabbath disappears again. In the record of Acts, Paul visits some synagogues on the Sabbath, because that's where he can reason with the Jewish communities, but in the epistles (barring Colossians 2:16) there is not one mention of the Sabbath.

I am sorry this is simply not biblical. According to the new testament scriptures "ALL" of God's laws (everyone of them) continued to be taught and upheld by JESUS and all the Apostles. Even after the death, buriel and ressurrection of JESUS all the apostles continued keeping God's 4th commandment even after the death of JESUS. You think if God's 4th Commandment was to be abolished JESUS would have told the Apostles would you not? Yet they continued keeping it.

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles not the JEWS yet his custom was to keep the Sabbath according to Gods' 4th commandment *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. God's people all through time to JESUS and the Aposltes to their disciples after their time to this very present day all through time have kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath unbroken to this very present day. If you need the historical references please let me know.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of men that has led many to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

In Acts 20, Paul travels to Troy (Troas) and scripture says he spent 7 days there. This means that during his seven day stay he was present during a weekly Sabbath. There is no mention of his observance, yet it does say, 'upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them'. So the disciples were meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday) to break bread together. It is then that Paul does his preaching. In other words, the disciples are not observing the Jewish Sabbath, but are meeting together on the first day of the week for their time of rest together. Paul supports this meeting by preaching to them.

According to God's Word the disciples met together everyday of the week...

ACTS 2:46-47 [46], And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The reason that the disciples met together in ACTS 20 is given in verse 7 which was Paul was departing the next day. The scripture does not say God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a a Holy day now does it?

God's 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and just like any of the other 10 commandments if we break them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Many Churches today are teaching man made teachings that are not biblical and leading all away from God's Word. Jesus does not respect the practice of following man-made teachings and traditions over the Word of God and warns us against doing it. This is very plain to see in Matthew 15:3-9; John 4:23-24; 1 John 2:3-4; John 3:15-21; Matthew 7:22-26.

Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4 and Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 14:12; 22-14.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that define what sin is when broken *James 2:10-11

According to God's Word all those who knowingly practice sin will not enter the kingdom of heave because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-39.

God has his people in every Church *John 10:16 and knows that his people have been led astray by these Churches and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow him *Acts 17:30-31. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24; Revelation 18:1-4

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27

 

[3rdAngel]

Again, your truth. It’s not everyone’s and it’s not mine. Your intent appears to be to preach that your truth is the only truth. Yeah...we don’t do that here. If that’s your intent, take it elsewhere.

You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you as your salvation is between you and God. I believe it is the Word of God that will be our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48. The OP is about Colossians 2:16 do you have anything to share in regards to the scriptures presented in the OP?

 

[3rdAngel]

It is certainly news to me that we Christians no longer hold to, The Ten Words as noted in the Decalogue, Deuteronomy in which the Sabbath Law is the 3rd commandment.
It is the duty of Christians therefore to remember that, although the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone, surpassed as they are by the "fulfilment" which Sunday brings, the underlying reasons for keeping "the Lord's Day" holy — inscribed solemnly in the Ten Commandments — remain valid, though they need to be reinterpreted in the light of the theology and spirituality of Sunday: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Then you shall do no work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your servant, or your maid, or your ox, or your ***, or any of your beasts, or the foreigner within your gates, that your servant and maid may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded that you keep the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:12-15). Here the Sabbath observance is closely linked with the liberation which God accomplished for his people.

Christ came to accomplish a new "exodus", to restore freedom to the oppressed. He performed many healings on the Sabbath (cf. Mt 12:9-14 and parallels), certainly not to violate the Lord's Day, but to reveal its full meaning: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mk 2:27). Opposing the excessively legalistic interpretation of some of his contemporaries, and developing the true meaning of the biblical Sabbath, Jesus, as "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mk 2:28), restores to the Sabbath observance its liberating character, carefully safeguarding the rights of God and the rights of man. This is why Christians, called as they are to proclaim the liberation won by the blood of Christ, felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection. The Passover of Christ has in fact liberated man from a slavery more radical than any weighing upon an oppressed people — the slavery of sin, which alienates man from God, and alienates man from himself and from others, constantly sowing within history the seeds of evil and violence.


The main point of the precept is not just any kind of interruption of work, but the celebration of the marvels which God has wrought.

The joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6).
excerpts from Dies Domini
Dies Domini (May 31, 1998) | John Paul II

According to the scriptures "THE LORDS DAY" is the Sabbath day not Sunday or the first day of the week. Claiming that "THE LORDS DAY" is the first day of the week or Sunday is simply not biblical and only a man made teaching and tradition that has led many to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

 

[3rdAngel]

You really want to claim that verse for yourself? John the baptist was clearly speaking of Jesus Christ who is the only one God gives the Spirit to without measure.

As we read in Romans 12:3 we should think of ourselves soberly as every one has been given a measure of faith by God.

It is the application of truth that is shown to be important in the scriptures. The point being made here is that only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *John 3:34; Matthew 15:3-9.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You are free to believe as you wish.

As are you.

But you are not free to state your personal truths or opinions as definitive matter of fact without qualifiers expressing opinion or belief.

 

[3rdAngel]

As are you. But you are not free to state your personal truths or opinions as definitive matter of fact without qualifiers expressing opinion or belief.

I am free to state what I beleive and why I believe what I believe and that is all I have done. It is not my personal truth it is the truth of what I believe from God's Word which is not my words but Gods' and that is all that has been shared here. Once again seems everyone wants to discuss anything except the OP. I can understand why although this is all off topic. Did you have anything to share in relation to the OP?

 

[74x12]

You cannot separate God's LAW from love as obedience to God's LAW is how love is expressed...

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT [2], FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH . [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

and is why JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

and why JOHN says;

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

and again here;

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST BEFORE GOD BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

and why JESUS says;

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

If I have not received Gods Spirit I would not have his Word in my heart.

How do we know that we know God?

1 JOHN 2:1-4. [2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS . [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

All the scriptures are great. But you want to ignore how the Law is being fulfilled for those who are in Jesus Christ. The problem with sin is that it revives the flesh and so you die to God and then you're condemned by the Law again. But if you crucify the flesh then the spirit can live to God free from condemnation.

Romans 8:4-6
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the holy Spirit is the new Law! The Law of the old Covenant was made for a carnal nation and not a spiritual nation. That's why they had to observe days like the sabbath. It was symbolic of what is to come.

But if you follow the lead of the Spirit then you will be free from the flesh and so all the Laws that were written for the flesh do not apply. Because you are free from the flesh and living to God so you can worship God in "Spirit and in truth" rather than oldness of the written letters of the Law. And yes that includes what was written on stone. (Romans 7:6)

But Jesus is the real commandment that gives Life. As He says

The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. (Ephesians 5:14)

So if you cling to the old man (who is under the Law) then you will be condemned by the Law that is written for the old man; but if you cling to Jesus then you will be raised unto God a new creature.

So the 10 commandments were written on stone to symbolize the stony hearts of the people (Ezekiel 36:26) whose carnal hearts could not really be submitted to the Law of God. (Romans 8:7) Because they are always at enmity with God. But when Jesus comes God gives a new heart of flesh (John 1:14) in place of the heart of stone. That is Jesus replaces the old evil flesh(hardened towards God) with a new flesh that is well pleasing to God. (Matthew 17:5)

And the new Commandment which is Jesus the WORD made flesh (John 1:14) gives life from the dead. And so rising from the dead who ever receives His holy Spirit is free from their old flesh and if they follow the lead of the Spirit they will be saved.

Because this is the rest and this is the refreshing as the prophet said. (Isaiah 28:12) And so whoever receives the Spirit of God has the real sabbath beginning inside of them. As God said He will rest in His love (Zephaniah 3:17) So that is the real rest of the people of God when they are resting with God in His love and this is what the old Sabbath day symbolized. Because God will rest once and that will be in the new Jerusalem. Because until she is built God will not rest.

And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. (Isaiah 62:7)

As it is written of her;

This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. (Psalm 132:14)

And

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Isaiah 11:10)

No wonder Jesus said

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Matthew 11:28)

So no He didn't mean once a week on Saturday!!! He meant the real rest of God that will give rest to your soul and will really satisfy your spirit. Because God is not so concerned with the rest of the mere flesh. Indeed, Jesus put that flesh to death on the cross. Yet you say we should rest the flesh once a week to please God? They that are in the flesh cannot please God! (Romans 8:8) What about the rest of the soul and the spirit? Who can give these rest? The sabbath day or Jesus Christ?

I tell you that Jesus is the real Lord of the Sabbath and the true rest of God.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (Matthew 11:29)

And so whoever is a "lively stone" (1 Peter 2:5) that is built up for the temple of the God is beginning to enter into the rest of God because they are part of that great city the new Jerusalem and so God is resting upon and in them already.

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. (1 Peter 4:14)

So they have sabbath everywhere they go (For the Lord of Sabbath is with them) and every day is sabbath because Jesus is the real Day Star and it's always morning because He is the "bright and morning Star".

Yet you cling to your solar sabbath days once a week. You can keep them! I'll take Jesus.

 

[74x12]

It is the application of truth that is shown to be important in the scriptures. The point being made here is that only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *John 3:34; Matthew 15:3-9.

Ok

 

[3rdAngel]

All the scriptures are great. But you want to ignore how the Law is being fulfilled for those who are in Jesus Christ. The problem with sin is that it revives the flesh and so you die to God and then you're condemned by the Law again. But if you crucify the flesh then the spirit can live to God free from condemnation.

Romans 8:4-6
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the holy Spirit is the new Law! The Law of the old Covenant was made for a carnal nation and not a spiritual nation. That's why they had to observe days like the sabbath. It was symbolic of what is to come.

But if you follow the lead of the Spirit then you will be free from the flesh and so all the Laws that were written for the flesh do not apply. Because you are free from the flesh and living to God so you can worship God in "Spirit and in truth" rather than oldness of the written letters of the Law. And yes that includes what was written on stone. (Romans 7:6)

But Jesus is the real commandment that gives Life. As He says

The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. (Ephesians 5:14)

So if you cling to the old man (who is under the Law) then you will be condemned by the Law that is written for the old man; but if you cling to Jesus then you will be raised unto God a new creature.

So the 10 commandments were written on stone to symbolize the stony hearts of the people (Ezekiel 36:26) whose carnal hearts could not really be submitted to the Law of God. (Romans 8:7) Because they are always at enmity with God. But when Jesus comes God gives a new heart of flesh (John 1:14) in place of the heart of stone. That is Jesus replaces the old evil flesh(hardened towards God) with a new flesh that is well pleasing to God. (Matthew 17:5)

And the new Commandment which is Jesus the WORD made flesh (John 1:14) gives life from the dead. And so rising from the dead who ever receives His holy Spirit is free from their old flesh and if they follow the lead of the Spirit they will be saved.

Because this is the rest and this is the refreshing as the prophet said. (Isaiah 28:12) And so whoever receives the Spirit of God has the real sabbath beginning inside of them. As God said He will rest in His love (Zephaniah 3:17) So that is the real rest of the people of God when they are resting with God in His love and this is what the old Sabbath day symbolized. Because God will rest once and that will be in the new Jerusalem. Because until she is built God will not rest.

And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. (Isaiah 62:7)

As it is written of her;

This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. (Psalm 132:14)

And

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Isaiah 11:10)

No wonder Jesus said

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Matthew 11:28)

So no He didn't mean once a week on Saturday!!! He meant the real rest of God that will give rest to your soul and will really satisfy your spirit. Because God is not so concerned with the rest of the mere flesh. Indeed, Jesus put that flesh to death on the cross. Yet you say we should rest the flesh once a week to please God? They that are in the flesh cannot please God! (Romans 8:8) What about the rest of the soul and the spirit? Who can give these rest? The sabbath day or Jesus Christ?

I tell you that Jesus is the real Lord of the Sabbath and the true rest of God.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (Matthew 11:29)

And so whoever is a "lively stone" (1 Peter 2:5) that is built up for the temple of the God is beginning to enter into the rest of God because they are part of that great city the new Jerusalem and so God is resting upon and in them already.

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. (1 Peter 4:14)

So they have sabbath everywhere they go (For the Lord of Sabbath is with them) and every day is sabbath because Jesus is the real Day Star and it's always morning because He is the "bright and morning Star".

Yet you cling to your solar sabbath days once a week. You can keep them! I'll take Jesus.

Hello 74x12 you are mistaken the very post you are quoting from shows how the law is being fulfilled in the scriptures posted in post # 455 linked. This is the new covenant promise of a new heart to love as shown in Hebrews 8:10-12. You cannot have the Spirit of the law without the letter of the law as the Spirit works through the letter not outside of it. "It is the Spirit that quickens the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life" *John 6:63. "Sanctify them through the truth; thy Word is truth *John 17:17. "If you continue in my Word then are you my disciples indeed and the truth shall make you free *John 8:31.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Your conclusion is only an assumption. According to God's Word, JESUS says, the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for mankind when there was NO SIN, NO LAW, NO MOSES, NO JEW and NO ISRAEL. Therefore Adam and Eve had God's Sabbath being the Father and mother of all mankind.

Before the written word of God there was the spoken Word of God which God gave to his people who believed and followed his Word....

GENESIS 26:5 Because Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.

The Hebrew word used for LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

God's people knew about God's laws well before the written Word by the Spoken Word of God.

Hope this helps.

3rdAngel, as I have said before, it is not the scriptures that I disagree with, but the interpretation that you apply to them.

You believe that Eve broke the Ten Commandments when she was tempted by Satan in Eden. I say that she broke the one commandment that God had pronounced up to that point in time.

Sin is the transgression of God's law, but the Ten Commandments is not an exhaustive list. The Torah is God's instruction, and is not exclusively the ten sayings of the Decalogue! [When you refer to Strong's concordance, notice that it says 'especially' the Decalogue. It does not say 'exclusively'!]

Take as an example, Luke 24:44. Here Jesus refers to all three portions of the Hebrew Bible: The Torah (Law), the Nevi'im (Prophets) and the Ketuvim (Writings). Your limited interpretation of the word 'torah' would have us believe that Jesus was talking just about the Ten Commandments, when he is clearly referring to the Pentateuch, the entire five books of Moses.

The Greek equivalent to 'torah' is 'nomos', and in Romans 2:14,15 we have the following passage:
'For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.'

If you swap the word 'law' in this passage for the word 'Decalogue' (as you would have us do every time we encounter the word 'torah') then you end up with a nonsense. Unsaved Gentiles do not observe the Sabbath 'by nature', as a matter of conscience, according to the law written in their hearts. But Gentiles, even when unsaved, understand what it means to care for others, and they understand this 'by nature' and conscience.

Clearly sin did not exist before the fall, and it was the temptation to be morally self-sufficient (in knowing good and evil) that led to the fall. This is why mankind were cut off from God, and why the Lord was left asking, 'Where art thou?'

In order to justify your position, you keep referring to Genesis 26:5, suggesting that the word 'laws' is a reference to the Decalogue. Yet, the covenant that God made with Abraham was different from that made with Moses. Read Genesis 17:9-14 and you have there commandments given to Abraham which are distinct from those found in the Decalogue. The Decalogue is really a summary of the covenant made with Moses and the Israelites.

You have also repeated the claim that God's seventh day, God's sanctified day (Genesis 2:3), contains an implicit commandment for man to rest every seventh day. As Anointed pointed out in an earlier post, days with God are 'as a thousand years' (see 2 Peter 3:8). This indicates that the creation account is also a prologue to the whole Bible, showing the lifespan of the 'first heaven and earth'.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Your conclusion is only an assumption. According to God's Word, JESUS says, the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for mankind when there was NO SIN, NO LAW, NO MOSES, NO JEW and NO ISRAEL. Therefore Adam and Eve had God's Sabbath being the Father and mother of all mankind.

Your responses...

3rdAngel, as I have said before, it is not the scriptures that I disagree with, but the interpretation that you apply to them.

You say this but I show you from the scriptures why I disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures but you do not believe.

You believe that Eve broke the Ten Commandments when she was tempted by Satan in Eden. I say that she broke the one commandment that God had pronounced up to that point in time.

I said no such thing. If I have said no such thing brother why do you pretend that I have? There was no 10 Commandments before sin because there was no sin and mankind was in perfect harmony with God.

3rdAngel said: ↑Before the written word of God there was the spoken Word of God which God gave to his people who believed and followed his Word.... GENESIS 26:5 Because Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.

The Hebrew word used for LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

God's people knew about God's laws well before the written Word by the Spoken Word of God.

Your response...

Sin is the transgression of God's law, but the Ten Commandments is not an exhaustive list. The Torah is God's instruction, and is not exclusively the ten sayings of the Decalogue! [When you refer to Strong's concordance, notice that it says 'especially' the Decalogue. It does not say 'exclusively'!]

No one said that Because Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS in reference to the Hebrew Word law means only God's 10 commandments. Torah includes all the laws even the the laws for remission of sin including burnt offerings for dedication and cleansing of sin. This was only provided as an example to show that before the written Word of God and before Exodus God's people were given God's Laws by the Spoken Word of God when you were claiming they had not.

Take as an example, Luke 24:44. Here Jesus refers to all three portions of the Hebrew Bible: The Torah (Law), the Nevi'im (Prophets) and the Ketuvim (Writings). Your limited interpretation of the word 'torah' would have us believe that Jesus was talking just about the Ten Commandments, when he is clearly referring to the Pentateuch, the entire five books of Moses.

I have never posted anywhere that the Torah only means Gods' 10 commandment. Please do not pretend that I have. The fact that Abraham had the Torah was shown to prove that God's people had God's LAW (10 commandments) and the laws for remission of sins by the spoken Word of God before Exodus and Moses which you were falsely claiming otherwise.

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

The Greek equivalent to 'torah' is 'nomos', and in Romans 2:14,15 we have the following passage: 'For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.'If you swap the word 'law' in this passage for the word 'Decalogue' (as you would have us do every time we encounter the word 'torah') then you end up with a nonsense.

Agreed although it is the application and how the Greek Word is used that determines what laws the passage of scripture is referring to in the new testament. In all Greek and Hebrew the scripture and chapter context determine the word meanings and applications.

For example take Romans 7:7; What law is it talking about?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

Greek Word for law is νόμος; nomos application is to God's 10th Commandment so that context is God's 10 commandments.

Now take Hebrews 10:1-4; What law is it talking about?

Hebrews 10:1-4 [1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Greek Word for law is νόμος; nomos application is to shadow laws in sin offerings so that context here are the laws for remission of sin.

Some times it can mean all laws depending on the application (God's 10 Commandments; laws for remission of sins and the prophets. For example...

Matthew 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Application here is JESUS fulfilling every aspect of the Torah

So the meaning of both the Hebrew word Torah and Nomos is determined by both scripture and chapter context. Every time these words are used does not mean all laws. Sometimes it can mean specific laws as provided in the examples above. Sometimes it can mean all laws it depends on the application.

Hope this makes everything clearer.

 

[3rdAngel]

Unsaved Gentiles do not observe the Sabbath 'by nature', as a matter of conscience, according to the law written in their hearts. But Gentiles, even when unsaved, understand what it means to care for others, and they understand this 'by nature' and conscience.

Unsaved Gentiles are unsaved. Romans 2:14 is not saying that unsaved gentiles are saved it is saying that if we do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves because they are obeying God's law from the heart. The very context of these scriptures in Romans 2:12-13 says [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

Romans 2:14 does not delete Romans 2:12-13 it is showing that it does not matter if you are Jew or Gentile. Only obedience to God's LAW is what counts. Paul is showing in Romans 2 that both JEW and Gentile are all under sin *Romans 3:10 and the true believer follows God from the heart which is the new covenant written in Hebrews 8:10-12 and concluded in Romans 2:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 2 and Romans 3 is in reference to the new covenant of a new heart by faith. It is not talking about abolishing God's 10 commandments. That would be a contradiction of other scriptures written by Paul elsewhere, for example *Romans 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid WE ESTABLISH THE LAW

Or elsewhere in Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

Clearly sin did not exist before the fall, and it was the temptation to be morally self-sufficient (in knowing good and evil) that led to the fall. This is why mankind were cut off from God, and why the Lord was left asking, 'Where art thou?'

Indeed sin did not exist before the fall and that is what has been shared with you. Acknowledging this fact though only proves that God's 4th Commandment Sabbath has not been abolished as JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27. It was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week when there was no sin, no plan of salvation, no Moses, no Jew and no Israel. God blessed the "seventh day for all mankind" and set it apart from every day of the week and made it a "Holy day" as a weekly day of rest and as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3.

What lead to the fall of mankind was the disobedience of Adam and Eve to God's Word. God
commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die *Genesis 2:16:17.

Disobedience to God's WORD is sin and the wages of sin is death *Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:12. The wages of sin is still death in the new covenant to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing by disobeying Gods' Word when we have been given a knowledge of the truth *Hebrews 10:26-39; Romans 6:23.

Now after the fall instead of one commandment we have 10 commandments which give us the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when it is broken *Romans 3:20. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day.

This is a man made teaching and tradition of man that has led many to break the commandments of God which JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. The question we must ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow; the teachings and traditions of men, or the Word of God?

Who do you believe and follow?