Coincident existence of dinosaurs and man as evidence against the theory of evolution

[Dan From Smithville]

Göbekli Tepe has the monumental architecture of a true civilization, and must have taken many people, a lot of organization, and some specialization to complete, plus it appears to have been permanently inhabited for some periods.
The problem is, it's a neolithic site, presumably built by hunter gatherers. Hunter gatherers generally have sparse populations, move in small bands, with no permanent settlements, no leaders, no specialization no social classes and certainly no monumental architecture.

Yet there it stands, built by people with no metal, no pottery, no wheel, no livestock, no writing, no agriculture; who had to go out and hunt/gather their food every day. Yet they had the large numbers, organization, engineering and technical skills of a civilization, chiefdom or agricultural society.

Permanent settlements, large groups and specialization were thought to occur only after agriculture and animal husbandry created enough resource density to sustain a large, permanent population.

Clearly, you know more about Gobekli Tepe than I do. I have read a little on it and it is interesting for its age and complexity. According to what I could find, the site was constructed by hunter/gatherers and was over a 1,000 years old before evidence of agriculture started to appear, so it seems I have to agree with your more knowledgeable assessment.

 

[Audie]

Not in science. I see a discovery like that creating a lot of excitement, interest and thousands of questions to ask and research, but nothing to shake the theory of evolution just from the establishment of the existence.

Like fossilized dinosaur soft tissue, it would be misused and misrepresented by those that deny evolution.
Coincidence. Artistic imagination. I have seen lots of so called dinosaurs in artistic renderings. Interesting, but hardly strong evidence of the existence of dinosaurs at the same time with people. There are also lots of places with ancient pictures that have no dinosaurs.

Even if they were depictions of dinosaurs that the artists actually saw in person, that would be exciting information, but not evidence that the theory of evolution has failed.

As it stands, ancient pictures that require interpretation means nothing.

Jesusc on toast and virgin mary on the subway wall prove god

 

[shmogie]

They have a beetle down there that courts beer bottles. Australia is a different world.

Yes, their snakes give me the willies. I live in Az and encounter rattlers all the time in the summer on our land, no big deal.

they have a variety of deadly snakes down there with poison much stronger than a rattler ( except the Mojave Green), and they don´t let you know where they are.

Then there is that damn spider that is just as deadly

 

[Audie]

Yes, their snakes give me the willies. I live in Az and encounter rattlers all the time in the summer on our land, no big deal.

they have a variety of deadly snakes down there with poison much onger than a rattler ( except the Mojave Green), and they don´t let you know where they are.

Then there is that damn spider that is just as deadly

On a nature reserve trail in Hong Kong I'd
stopped at a little shrine, when I realized
I was sitting right by a big brown cobra!

Mom describes herself as a "jack- buddhist"
and taught me to respect, not fear snakes
and other living things.

It just looked at me, I looked at it.
It flicketed its little black tongue.

I was not afraid at all, it was very serene
being there.

I hope nobody came later and killed it.

You dont kill the rattlesnakes you see-
right?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, their snakes give me the willies. I live in Az and encounter rattlers all the time in the summer on our land, no big deal.

they have a variety of deadly snakes down there with poison much stronger than a rattler ( except the Mojave Green), and they don´t let you know where they are.

Then there is that damn spider that is just as deadly

I believe the estimate is that for every 10 snakes you see in Australia, 9 of them are deadly venomous and to the point that immediate treatment for a bite is often not quick enough.

I do not know how deadly the Sydney funnel web spider is, but it can result in death. It's fangs are strong enough to bite through shoes as I understand it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Jesusc on toast and virgin mary on the subway wall prove god

Not our strongest evidence and maybe better evidence for something else.

 

[shmogie]

Ye

I believe the estimate is that for every 10 snakes you see in Australia, 9 of them are deadly venomous and to the point that immediate treatment for a bite is often not quick enough.

I do not know how deadly the Sydney funnel web spider is, but it can result in death. It's fangs are strong enough to bite through shoes as I understand it.

Yep, scary huh ?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

On a nature reserve trail in Hong Kong I'd
stopped at a little shrine, when I realized
I was sitting right by a big brown cobra!

Mom describes herself as a "jack- buddhist"
and taught me to respect, not fear snakes
and other living things.

It just looked at me, I looked at it.
It flicketed its little black tongue.

I was not afraid at all, it was very serene
being there.

I hope nobody came later and killed it.

You dont kill the rattlesnakes you see-
right?

That is a good point. I hope he is not just decimating the local rattler population out of the age old idea that the only good snake is a dead snake. Ecologically, we benefit from them in rodent control and as an important part of the ecosystem.

 

[Audie]

I believe the estimate is that for every 10 snakes you see in Australia, 9 of them are deadly venomous and to the point that immediate treatment for a bite is often not quick enough.

I do not know how deadly the Sydney funnel web spider is, but it can result in death. It's fangs are strong enough to bite through shoes as I understand it.

Come now, dan, you know better than that.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Ye

Yep, scary huh ?

I am not in Australia, so not as much as if I were there, but yes, pretty impressive.

 

[shmogie]

On a nature reserve trail in Hong Kong I'd
stopped at a little shrine, when I realized
I was sitting right by a big brown cobra!

Mom describes herself as a "jack- buddhist"
and taught me to respect, not fear snakes
and other living things.

It just looked at me, I looked at it.
It flicketed its little black tongue.

I was not afraid at all, it was very serene
being there.

I hope nobody came later and killed it.

You dont kill the rattlesnakes you see-
right?

Unfortunately, if they are near the house, I do. I do it very humanely and regret doing it. I love dogs, we have 5 now ( one is a gorgeous Chinese Shar Pei) we have lost two dogs to rattlesnake bites.

Last winter we made a huge effort to snake proof our yard. I am happy to say that for the first time since we built our house on our seven acres, I have killed no snakes. By the end of July, for 17 summers, I would have killed at least four. Right near the house ! On the rest of the property I ignore them.

The year our house was built, I killed 16 !

I found out later that where we bought was called rattlesnake acres .

If I stumbled upon a cobra like you, you would be shocked at how fast a fat boy could go backwards !

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Come now, dan, you know better than that.

What I have read is that the bite is very painful, both from the venom and the extent of the wound and that death more often occurs in the young and the elderly. A common theme, given the shape of the immune system in both of those groups.

Are you saying, I am relying on belief in a popular idea and not on the facts. You may be right. I will have to look further into this. I should be less susceptible to that trap than most, but I am not immune to it.

Some hard numbers available on Australian snakes from a brief surf. Total species of snakes are about 140. Total number of venomous snakes are about 100. So the superficial estimate of seeing 9 venomous snakes out of every 10 snakes may not be that weak.

However, though they can be deadly when they bite, it turns out that the incidence of snake bite deaths in Australia is very low. Numbers that I do recall (but have not verified) from India indicate that as many as 20,000 deaths a year can be attributed to venomous snake bite, but in Australia, it seems to be from 3-18 per 100,000 people with a low mortality rate, despite the number of venomous snakes and the strength of the venom that some possess.

No doubt population density and dispersal have some impact on those numbers.

 

[Audie]

Unfortunately, if they are near the house, I do. I do it very humanely and regret doing it. I love dogs, we have 5 now ( one is a gorgeous Chinese Shar Pei) we have lost two dogs to rattlesnake bites.

Last winter we made a huge effort to snake proof our yard. I am happy to say that for the first time since we built our house on our seven acres, I have killed no snakes. By the end of July, for 17 summers, I would have killed at least four. Right near the house ! On the rest of the property I ignore them.

The year our house was built, I killed 16 !

I found out later that where we bought was called rattlesnake acres .

If I stumbled upon a cobra like you, you would be shocked at how fast a fat boy could go backwards !

I understand that you cannot have them at your door!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Unfortunately, if they are near the house, I do. I do it very humanely and regret doing it. I love dogs, we have 5 now ( one is a gorgeous Chinese Shar Pei) we have lost two dogs to rattlesnake bites.

Last winter we made a huge effort to snake proof our yard. I am happy to say that for the first time since we built our house on our seven acres, I have killed no snakes. By the end of July, for 17 summers, I would have killed at least four. Right near the house ! On the rest of the property I ignore them.

The year our house was built, I killed 16 !

I found out later that where we bought was called rattlesnake acres .

If I stumbled upon a cobra like you, you would be shocked at how fast a fat boy could go backwards !

I am not opposed to controlling them or managing them in proximity to homes were people and pets hang out. But I am glad to hear you do not indiscriminately eradicate them everywhere.

It is not a big problem where I am, but copperheads do get into yards and around homes. I have relocated them, but I have had experience doing that and would not recommend others attempt it. I have not tried it with other species either. I do not know how they would respond or how quick they are. I use tools and do not capture and secure them with my hands.

Along with a group, we walked right over an injured juvenile cottonmouth once. We concluded that the injuries probably saved one of us from a serious bite.

I too can move pretty quickly with the right motivation.

 

[Audie]

What I have read is that the bite is very painful, both from the venom and the extent of the wound and that death more often occurs in the young and the elderly. A common theme, given the shape of the immune system in both of those groups.

Are you saying, I am relying on belief in a popular idea and not on the facts. You may be right. I will have to look further into this. I should be less susceptible to that trap than most, but I am not immune to it.

Some hard numbers available on Australian snakes from a brief surf. Total species of snakes are about 140. Total number of venomous snakes are about 100. So the superficial estimate of seeing 9 venomous snakes out of every 10 snakes may not be that weak.

However, though they can be deadly when they bite, it turns out that the incidence of snake bite deaths in Australia is very low. Numbers that I do recall (but have not verified) from India indicate that as many as 20,000 deaths a year can be attributed to venomous snake bite, but in Australia, it seems to be from 3-18 per 100,000 people with a low mortality rate, despite the number of venomous snakes and the strength of the venom that some possess.

No doubt population density and dispersal have some impact on those numbers.

It was the bite-thru-shoe thing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

On a nature reserve trail in Hong Kong I'd
stopped at a little shrine, when I realized
I was sitting right by a big brown cobra!

Mom describes herself as a "jack- buddhist"
and taught me to respect, not fear snakes
and other living things.

It just looked at me, I looked at it.
It flicketed its little black tongue.

I was not afraid at all, it was very serene
being there.

I hope nobody came later and killed it.

You dont kill the rattlesnakes you see-
right?

What I find interesting about Australia is the number of different animals that are venomous and the strength of the venom that some of them possess. One explanation is that the prey of those species may require a stronger venom to act on them, so the animals have evolved stronger venoms. Another evolutionary arms race.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It was the bite-thru-shoe thing.

That one actually has a factual basis. The bite is strong enough to go through somewhat heavy leather. The Sydney funnel web is also atypical of most spiders in its level of aggression as well and there are accounts of it pursuing the victim.

According to the National Geographic website, they can bite through shoes and even through finger and toenails.

 

[shmogie]

I am not opposed to controlling them or managing them in proximity to homes were people and pets hang out. But I am glad to hear you do not indiscriminately eradicate them everywhere.

It is not a big problem where I am, but copperheads do get into yards and around homes. I have relocated them, but I have had experience doing that and would not recommend others attempt it. I have not tried it with other species either. I do not know how they would respond or how quick they are. I use tools and do not capture and secure them with my hands.

Along with a group, we walked right over an injured juvenile cottonmouth once. We concluded that the injuries probably saved one of us from a serious bite.

I too can move pretty quickly with the right motivation.

I have friends that relocate them way out into the desert, but frankly I am very uncomfortable with it, and uncomfortable people make mistakes. Since we live 60 miles from the nearest hospital, and a rescue helicopter has to come from phoenix, 100 miles away, I am not rolling the dice.

My personal philosophy is to not kill anything or anybody unless they are a direct personal threat, mosquitoś excepted.

If fishing I file he barbs off the hooks so I can release the fish, and I refuse to go hunting. My Dad was a big hunter, and thought I was a sissy.

 

[shmogie]

It was the bite-thru-shoe thing.

Audie, dear girl, what is the name of the sect in India ( Hindu ? Buddhist ?) that wear masks so they won´t breathe in an insect and kill it ? Something like ahimsa sticks in my mind,

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I have friends that relocate them way out into the desert, but frankly I am very uncomfortable with it, and uncomfortable people make mistakes. Since we live 60 miles from the nearest hospital, and a rescue helicopter has to come from phoenix, 100 miles away, I am not rolling the dice.

My personal philosophy is to not kill anything or anybody unless they are a direct personal threat, mosquitoś excepted.

If fishing I file he barbs off the hooks so I can release the fish, and I refuse to go hunting. My Dad was a big hunter, and thought I was a sissy.

That is why I would not recommend relocating. It is one of those things where a mistake or over-confidence can have immediate feedback that no one wants.

I have little trouble with dispatching biting insects. Even as an entomologist.

That's interesting. I used to hunt more often, but I remember watching a deer for so long, I did not have the heart to shoot it after a while. Not sure what that means. Pretty sure none of it means we are sissy, if that even applies.