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Closeness between Sufism and Baha'I faith

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So he's the door to the Mahdi and the Mahdi too. Very rational. Nope it's not that he didn't change his stance.

I'm the door to myself. All Prophets are first and last Prophets that is what Seal of Prophets mean! Day of judgment is baha'allah period! Etc etc...

I think Bahaism is one of the most dishonest religions out there. Next level of dishonesty to oneself.
When we read Hadithes, there are in fact two Mahdis. This is not obvious though.
In Hadithes a Qaim, is described as someone who is from lineage of Muhammad through Imam Hissein and Fatima. Then there is another Mahdi, who is also known as return of Christ.
The Bab was the Qaim, and Bahaullah was the Mahdi. Thus, when the Bab was saying He is a door to Mahdi, He meant His Revelation is a door to manifestation of Baha'u'llah.
There is a well-known Hadith, that is reported from various chains:
"No Mahdi except Christ". In Bahai view, this is Bahaullah. The second Mahdi, after the Qaim, or the Bab. So, I see all of it consistent.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who are you to tell Baha'I they are lies and forgery? What the heck?
You are not a prophet.

By the way this OP are in resources not in debate forum....

Bah'allah quotes Du'a Nudba in kitabal itqaan at lengths and talks about it, in that it's found:
He endued him (i.e. `Ali) with the position that (Prophet) Aaron had with regard to (Prophet) Moses,

فَقَالَ لَهُ: ”انْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَىٰ
faqal lahu anta minni bimanzilati haruna min musa
saying, “Your position to me is as same as Aaron’s position to Moses (in every thing)

إِلاَّ انَّهُ لاََ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي.“
illa annahu la nabiyya ba`di
except that there shall be no prophet after me.


Maybe he didn't realize it said that. But he quotes the Du'a a lot in kitab Itqaan.

Another reason why Bahaism fails.

Dua Nudba - Weeping - Duas.org
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think Bahaism is one of the most dishonest religions out there. Next level of dishonesty to oneself.

Yet many would offer it is the most honest, as trustworthiness and truthfulness are the core teaching practiced by Baha'i and the teachings of Baha’u’llah are founded in those God given virtues. They are the foundation of all virtues.

All our dealings in life as a Baha'i are to reflect trustworthiness and truthfulness, thus, that is what we strive to reflect in our work, our life and our faith.

"Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills." 22:18

Regards Tony
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When we read Hadithes, there are in fact two Mahdis. This is not obvious though.
In Hadithes a Qaim, is described as someone who is from lineage of Muhammad through Imam Hissein and Fatima. Then there is another Mahdi, who is also known as return of Christ.
The Bab was the Qaim, and Bahaullah was the Mahdi. Thus, when the Bab was saying He is a door to Mahdi, He meant His Revelation is a door to manifestation of Baha'u'llah.
There is a well-known Hadith, that is reported from various chains:
"No Mahdi except Christ". In Bahai view, this is Bahaullah. The second Mahdi, after the Qaim, or the Bab. So, I see all of it consistent.

It's all sophistry with you guys.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
The term Ahlulbayt is not used, because the offspring of Bah'allah didn't continue the lie. The Quran emphasizes family members are chosen and kinship is always part of succession, so to as to challenge disbelievers if they bring a forgery to then get their family and offspring on it if they can, one forgery after another pretending they are God's light and reminder, but they can't.

Baha'allah and Bab are not related like Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) or Lut (a) and Ibrahim (a) or Musa (A) and Harun (a) and they have no succession in their offspring.
If this is a requirement for a true Messenger, how would this be applicable to Jesus, who did not even have a child?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If this is a requirement for a true Messenger, how would this be applicable to Jesus, who did not even have a child?

Jesus is the last of Twelve Successors of Musa and the last of Ahlulbayt of Harun and Musa.

The Mahdi is the last of Ahlulbayt, from offspring of Fatima. He is not a starting foundation.

But your two claim to be starting foundations, and Quran shows, they won't be able to bring the number to twelve in succession and can't get their family continuously in on the lies.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Bah'allah quotes Du'a Nudba in kitabal itqaan at lengths and talks about it, in that it's found:
He endued him (i.e. `Ali) with the position that (Prophet) Aaron had with regard to (Prophet) Moses,

فَقَالَ لَهُ: ”انْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَىٰ
faqal lahu anta minni bimanzilati haruna min musa
saying, “Your position to me is as same as Aaron’s position to Moses (in every thing)

إِلاَّ انَّهُ لاََ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي.“
illa annahu la nabiyya ba`di
except that there shall be no prophet after me.


Maybe he didn't realize it said that. But he quotes the Du'a a lot in kitab Itqaan.

Another reason why Bahaism fails.

Dua Nudba - Weeping - Duas.org
In your opinion.....
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who are you to tell Baha'I they are lies and forgery? What the heck?
You are not a prophet.

By the way this OP are in resources not in debate forum....

What we have in common Conscious thoughts is that we look out for each other. One can tell when a heart just wants to embrace the love of all humanity.

Stay happy, stay safe Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The term Ahlulbayt is not used, because the offspring of Bah'allah didn't continue the lie. The Quran emphasizes family members are chosen and kinship is always part of succession, so to as to challenge disbelievers if they bring a forgery to then get their family and offspring on it if they can, one forgery after another pretending they are God's light and reminder, but they can't.

Baha'allah and Bab are not related like Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) or Lut (a) and Ibrahim (a) or Musa (A) and Harun (a) and they have no succession in their offspring.

What about John the Baptist and Jesus, were they related? Elijah always comes first.

Who was the Elijah of Islam, I am thinking it was Ali?

The succession of Baha’u’llah was a Son and then a Great grandchild, so that did form part of the succession. Thus no body can bring a forgery against Baha’u’llah as the Covernant is clear and unbreakable, the explanations have been given the structure built.

But in the end this takes us away from our common bond which is Allah and God does as God so Wills.

We have a common bond in Allah and that bond enables us to serve all humanity.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Imran (a) and Zakariya (a) are brothers, and so their respective offspring are cousins.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Bah'allah quotes Du'a Nudba in kitabal itqaan at lengths and talks about it, in that it's found:
He endued him (i.e. `Ali) with the position that (Prophet) Aaron had with regard to (Prophet) Moses,

فَقَالَ لَهُ: ”انْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَىٰ
faqal lahu anta minni bimanzilati haruna min musa
saying, “Your position to me is as same as Aaron’s position to Moses (in every thing)

إِلاَّ انَّهُ لاََ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي.“
illa annahu la nabiyya ba`di
except that there shall be no prophet after me.


Maybe he didn't realize it said that. But he quotes the Du'a a lot in kitab Itqaan.

Another reason why Bahaism fails.

Dua Nudba - Weeping - Duas.org
You are welcome to open another thread for these issues to discuss. But this thread is about similarities between Sufism and Bahai Faith. So, let's not turn it to debate here.
I only wanted to provide some info as I knew.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sorry, could not let that go unanswered. Woe is me.

Jesus said in John 14:"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Does that mean that?

Regards Tony

We'll talk about all this in another thread. But short: there is in all times, a leader who is the truth of God's Light and his face by which is the door to God and no other means but that door to God can be entered.

Jesus words is in context he has predecessors and the "praised one" "comforter" (however you translate it in the debate) in the future, and Elijah is back for a purpose and a reason.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
I can not explain it, but for some reason I find many similarities in Baha'I and Sufism ( not all sufis will agree on this) but knowing that Sufis back in the earlier times did speak with Baha'I leaders like Shoghi Effendi does make it clear of the connection.

Ashodara: The Baha'i Faith and Sufism


Bahaism, Sufism and Ahmediyas are nonviolent versions of monotheism.

But I find Bahaism more similar to sufism, probably due to deep love for God they emphasize along with an emphasis on tolerance and acceptance. The Ahmediyas seems to have an emphasis on scholarship.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Bahaism, Sufism and Ahmediyas are nonviolent versions of monotheism.

But I find Bahaism more similar to sufism, probably due to deep love for God they emphasize along with an emphasis on tolerance and acceptance. The Ahmediyas seems to have an emphasis on scholarship.

I think the most common thing is they cower from the duty to stand up for oppressed and so seem more "peaceful" to oppressors.
 
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