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Featured Clearly, God wants us to worship Him, but why should we?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    QUOTE="QuestioningMind, post: 6623412, member: 25412"]Change your concept of worship. It doesn't need to be submission to a higher power

    I based my concept of worship on the definition you provided in your previous post.

    Worship meaning you give acknowledge and reverence to someone or something higher or more worthy of respect than yourself[/QUOTE]

    @QuestioningMind

    You don't need to bow down to something you put at reverence:

    Bowing, etc, are cultural but it all balls down to acknowledgement, reverence, and respect.

    Bowing and submission are cultural. It's not a universal word for worship. The definition/context is definitely not an abrahamic word.

    I'm not sure the point you're making, though. Please add commentary if you're quoting me.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I think that knowing God and worshiping God are separate although they are related because first you have to know God and then you worship God for who you know He is. That is exemplified in this Baha'i prayer:

    Short Obligatory Prayer

    “I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.

    There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.”

    Bahá’u’lláh


    However, if one does not believe all the good things scriptures say about God, one might not like God very much so one would probably be hard pressed to worship God.

    I think that following God's commandments is a separate matter altogether, although maybe not, because in my religion we are commanded to work for a living and Baha'u'llah also wrote that work done in the spirit of service to God is equivalent to worship.
     
  3. Etritonakin

    Etritonakin Well-Known Member

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    To worship God as most high is to acknowledge reality. It is not much different than a parent being acknowledged as authority in a household -honored -and especially acknowledged for being excellent. The latter is not so apparent right now, as God allowed all of the evil which we have experienced to exist -but when we see what it produces in the end, we will understand why -and praise him all the more.
    To praise him makes him happy as much as when we praise each other.
     
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  4. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    There are several reasons
    1) It's the most loving thing for God to want for us as John Piper puts it "I am most satisfied when God is most glorified"
    2) He deserves it
     
  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That's not very loving when you expect it. And why does this John person matter?
    Why?
     
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  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Does not say "God wants us to worship Him"
    You misinterpret the verse
     
    #86 stvdv, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  7. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Trust me, I know of suffering. That is what makes each new day such a blessing. Always have hope :)
     
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  8. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I think what is "clear" is that other human beings want us to worship God. They talk about God AN AWFUL LOT MORE than God talks about Himself. Even The Bible can only be assumed to be "the words of God" - and otherwise, it was (factually) written by humans regardless what you suppose God's role was in its crafting.

    Other humans want you to worship God. Period. The real question you should be asking yourself with that in mind is why are those humans so keen on you worshipping?
     
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  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    BhagawadGita is a Vaishnava scripture. Hindus do not deride scriptures of sects whose views are different from their own, but the difference remains. Also since written, there has been interpolations in BhagawadGita, that is why some of its verses accept non-duality whereas others accept duality. BhagawadGita is respected by all Hindus but that does not mean agreement. Vinayaka too will differ from it and so will do many others.

    Furthermore, you are generally reading Hare-Krishna / Prabhupada translations. They are not wholly correct. They introduce Krishna bhakti (devotion) in verses where it is not present.
    Bahaollah (and you) are being witness, where is the evidence? Courts also accept the testimony of a witness, if the witness provides proof. Just an assertion is not enough.
    There are false witnesses also. They sell their own importance.
     
    #89 Aupmanyav, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    It's all fine and good …..Self Aware
    to say ….I AM!

    but if no one answers...………….

    and if the answer comes back as an Echo
    that is not really a response

    Someone had to be First
    to say ...I AM!

    and Someone responded......Me Two!
     
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  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    There is always another way to understand verses of Gita. I believe in existence of Brahman, which is not a God. For me the Krishna of BhagawadGita is the Brahman. You will remember that I have always compared my visualization of Brahman to physical energy, gravity, electromagnetism, light, heat, etc. This is what the verse says to me:

    "mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha, yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ;
    asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ, yathā jñāsyasi tat shrunu."


    Meaning: mayi - to Me; āsakta-manāḥ - mind attached; pārtha - O son of Pṛthā; yogam - self-realization; yuñjan - practicing; mat-āśrayaḥ - in consciousness of Me (Kṛṣṇa consciousness)*; asaṁśayam - without doubt; samagram - completely; mām - Me; yathā - how; jñāsyasi - you can know; tat - that; śṛṇu - try to hear.
    * (Kṛṣṇa consciousness) - unnecessary addition, does not exist in the verse.

    Aupmanyav's Translation: O Partha (Arjuna), with your heart attached to me (i.e., in deep contemplation of the non-God Brahman), practice self-realization by taking refuge in me; hear, how you can know me completely without any doubt.

    I have done that completely, and therefore, have found answers to all my questions.
     
    #91 Aupmanyav, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  12. GoodbyeDave

    GoodbyeDave Well-Known Member

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    Not all of us believe in scriptures. Not all of us believe in "God".

    A better question is why we worship. The word is derived from "worth" — the noun meant the quality of being worthy, as in Chaucer's "A man of worship and honour". So to worship a god is convey the fact that we honour them; it's showing respect to a superior and gratitude for benefits received from them; to worship is part of justice. Thomas Aquinas wrote "Again, honour is due to someone under the aspect of excellence … in human affairs we see that different honour is due to different personal excellences, one kind of honour to a father, another to the king, and so on." (Summa 2.2 Q81)
     
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  13. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    Do you think pets should be grateful to their owners?
     
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    For keeping them imprisoned in their houses and not letting them be free? Some pet animals have even forgotten what it means to be free (Dogs, cows, horses, etc.).
     
    #94 Aupmanyav, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I don't read here, that "God wants us to worship Him".
    God shows how to ''know Him completely, free from doubt". Just a friendly advice/gift. Free to take or leave; no hurt feelings:)...Love only.

    IMHO: Bhakti Yoga stands for:
    a) Bhakti: pure Love; or Krishna Consciousness
    b) Yoga: unconditional mind; or "mind attached exclusively to me" (Pure Consciousness, or Krishna).
     
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  16. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    When we encounter God, or even just a reflection of God as in the spectacular beauty and order of nature, we cannot be but moved to worship. It is simply a natural thing.
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    What is freedom? Human beings are best free when we accept responsibility and boundaries. Total lack of these things results in a chaotic life that ultimately enslaves us.

    For cat and dogs, etc., being a pet is what they have evolved to be, what they are bred to be. They are no longer wild. To be wild is to face starvation. They need human beings not only for food, but for affection and attention. Yes, even cats!

    Livestock animals are similarly bred to need human beings, but one can argue they are still enslaved because their ultimate purpose is slaughter, nor are they given love.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks, I can see it that way if I live only in the day, and don't think about the past :( or the future :(
    Don't get me wrong, I have great hope for the future of humanity, just not for my own life. I really have to believe God cares about me in order to have any hope at all, given the situation. ;)

    This life has been mostly suffering for me, and it's not over. However, I just do the best I can in the present day and I hang onto the hope I have been given by the scriptures of my religion...

    “O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks for your opinion. I have a different opinion and it is based upon what 'I consider' logic and common sense.

    Why would other people want me to worship God? What would be in it for them, what would be their motive?
    I can think of no motive and that is one reason I believe that those scriptures originated from God through His Messengers. Moreover, I can think of no motive for writing anything that is written in those scriptures, except that God was behind them in some way.

    Motive is everything when it comes to human behavior. Moreover, it is the very first thing that a detective looks at when a crime has been committed.

    What would have been the motives for the Messengers of God to lay their lives on the line and suffer persecution throughout their entire lives, if they were not sent by God? Mind you, none of them were wealthy and they all knew they were going to die, so fame would not matter after they were dead. I just try to be logical.

    I do not believe that God can talk about Himself, except through His Messengers, because God is not a man. I just try to be logical.
    .
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks for that information about Hinduism and the scriptures. Yes, I know there are many different sects of Hinduism, just as in all the older religions.
    You raise a good point. I say that prayer every day and I never thought of that. So, when we say that prayer we are bearing witness before God that that what follows is true -- that God has created us to know Him and to worship Him. That does not require any evidence or proof because it does not involve a court of law.

    Definition of bear witness. 1 : to show that something exists or is true —+ to His success bears witness to the value of hard work. Rising ticket sales bear witness to the band's popularity.

    Bear Witness | Definition of Bear Witness by Merriam-Webster
     
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