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Clarification is in order

scitsofreaky

Active Member
I think that some clearification is in order(just to emphasis my point in the title).
Intelligent design is not synomous with creationism. The most basic definition of id is that God caused the universe to exist. There are many different beliefs within id, including creationism (that god directly created earth, man, etc). So, id does not always disagree with evolution. I believe that God created the natural laws that govern our universe, and one of these laws may be evolution(micro is a no-brain in my eyes, but macro is still unproven and flawed).
Sorry if I seem preachy, I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Good points, scitso. ID is an assertion of Who did all this, it does not concern itself with mechanism.

Evolution describes the mechanisms by which all this came about and does not comment on who initiated or guides it.

"Who" and "how" are entirely different questions.
 

Pah

Uber all member
scitsofreaky said:
I think that some clearification is in order(just to emphasis my point in the title).
Intelligent design is not synomous with creationism. The most basic definition of id is that God caused the universe to exist. There are many different beliefs within id, including creationism (that god directly created earth, man, etc). So, id does not always disagree with evolution. I believe that God created the natural laws that govern our universe, and one of these laws may be evolution(micro is a no-brain in my eyes, but macro is still unproven and flawed).
Sorry if I seem preachy, I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page.
Please do not kid yourself - politically, creationism (the biblical kind) is identical to Intelligent Design. It is a means to open the classroom door to a divinity in science. Some Christians have been stung since the Scopes trial and this is just another way of trying to by-pass the constitutional decision that creationism is unconstitutional in the classroom.

One only has to look at the argument for the "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to realize that the term you used for "designer" is a Christian God (but that might be another thread). ID is less an argument within science as it is in politics.

ID has, so far, ONLY disagreed with evolution as the beggining of life. It only makes a hypothesis, presents NO evidence to support the hypothesis, and is left with the non sequitor conclusion "since evolution is wrong - ID must be right". I have yet to see any diverse "beliefs" in Inteligent Design.

Macroevolution is the extrapolation of microevolution - the same process within species as between new species and evidence supports in its own right. In order to discount new species it must be shown that it is impossible to create new species. It must show what the mechanism is that PROHIBITS an accumulation of mutations from creating a new species.
 
Actually, the creationists won the Scopes trial.

As for the OP, I don't entirely agree. It seems to me that ID is the hypothesis that an intelligent entity created the universe and that there is scientific evidence that this is the case. This is a pretty bold hypothesis, and if those making it would present convincing evidence they would revolutionize most fields of science. So far they haven't produced any though.
 

Fatmop

Active Member
Their "scientific evidence" amounts to a vastly over-simplified analogy: if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck; therefore, if I think it looks like God made it, then God made it. They have nothing else.
Whenever someone brings up ID, they try to reason that lots of people fall under their belief, not just Christians! :) Yay!!!! ... But if you ask the one bringing it up what religion they are, what do you think they'll say?
 

scitsofreaky

Active Member
I have yet to see any diverse "beliefs" in Inteligent Design
Well, I have. For example there is the one I described (a belief, one with which I don't have any proof of, that I share in common with some other deists), and there are different beliefs just within deism.
But, most people will only deal with the creationists because they are the most prevalent in society, but that doesn't mean that there isn't diversity .Because of this I am more likely to just say that I am an evolutionist just to not get clumped with them.
 

Pah

Uber all member
In response to "I have yet to see any diverse "beliefs" in Inteligent Design"
scitsofreaky said:
Well, I have. For example there is the one I described (a belief, one with which I don't have any proof of, that I share in common with some other deists), and there are different beliefs just within deism.
But, most people will only deal with the creationists because they are the most prevalent in society, but that doesn't mean that there isn't diversity .Because of this I am more likely to just say that I am an evolutionist just to not get clumped with them
.
Perhaps an example outside the known creation story would have helped for those that offer a supernatural cause.
 

scitsofreaky

Active Member
My beliefs are outside of creationism since I don't believe that God created anything physical, just the laws that caused the physical in the big bang.
Where do those people that think that the universe has always existed(but not necessarily in its present form) fall?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I must agree with Pah here. If you are an intelligent design guy, you must at least entertain the question of who instigated the design. That will put you in with the folks who think that aliens started the whole thing. Creationists and alien folks are strange bedfellows.:D


:eek:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
scitsofreaky said:
You just proved my point that ID is diverse, with creationists and aliens in the same category. Thanks.
It's my pleasure scits!! :biglaugh:
 
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