Claims vs. Beliefs

[Trailblazer]

Yes. I have ineffable knowledge.

Me too, as knowledge of God is always ineffable...
but now you are the fall guy instead of me being the fall girl.

 

[The Hammer]

Me too, as knowledge of God is always ineffable...
but now you are the fall guy instead of me being the fall girl.

It's fun to shift the blame around us gods so to speak. Gives One of us a break anyways.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's fun to shift the blame around us gods so to speak. Gives One of us a break anyways.

I'm sorry I have to eat and go to bed, and just when the party was getting started, or was it over....

 

[firedragon]

That is a useful question. How we can know is by reading about Baha'u'llah and there are accounts from people who knew Him in these texts.

Okay. So you are specific about Bahaullah.

How do you authenticate what you think were said by some people? What is your authenticating methodology?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are Orangutan Khan. God is You

Not correct. I am not a God. I am just one of the 8 billion humans and a 100 thousand trillion living beings and a 100 thousand quadrillion entities or more in the universe. Of course, my personal belief (Advaita Hinduism - non-duality) says that all that exists in the universe is 'Brahman' (physical energy). But that is not a God.

All you know is that He married her, you do not know why or what He did after he married her.

After marriage, they must have done what we do after marriage, consummate it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Prove what is indescribable, you jest?
(The ineffability of Gods designates incomprehensibility.)

I'd rather explain color to someone blind
from birth.

Or better yet can you prove to me that YOU exist?

No, you were the one that claimed to have knowledge. Were you trolling earlier? You could not have been serious with your claim, as you yourself just pointed out.

Here on the internet I can't prove that I exist. In a face to face conversation it is easy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree but in a way you may disagree with: Knowledge (experience of Truth) trumps belief. The intellect is the best tool to have knowledge of the world. The heart is the best tool to have knowledge of the ineffable.

Hafiz: “The heart is the thousand – stringed instrument that can only be tuned with Love.”

Sorry, but the ineffable is forever limited to mere belief. One may have a very strong belief, but that does not make it real.

 

[The Hammer]

Here on the internet I can't prove that I exist. In a face to face conversation it is easy.

Trolling no/yes. Making a point. I've directly experienced the Gods, but incomprehensibility is the name of the game in those interactions.

All we are left with to express that is Art (song and dance for me).

And for me to try and begin to tell you (via words) would be like describing color to the blind, and deaf. You have no perceptual basis to grasp it.

But what I have isn't belief. It only looks that way to you.

Oh, and I'd question your existence in person as much as on the internet.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay. So you are specific about Bahaullah.

How do you authenticate what you think were said by some people? What is your authenticating methodology?

I never tried to authenticate it so I have no methodology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Trolling no/yes. Making a point. I've directly experienced the Gods, but incomprehensibility is the name of the game in those interactions.

All we are left with to express that is Art (song and dance for me).

And for me to try and begin to tell you (via words) would be like describing color to the blind, and deaf. You have no perceptual basis to grasp it.

But what I have isn't belief. It only looks that way to you.

Oh, and I'd question your existence in person as much as on the internet.

No, you can only believe that you experienced the Gods. As you said yourself, that is ineffable. Your silly game was apparent immediately and then you topped it off by laughing at your own rather ignorant statement.

And please, just because someone can see through your rather transparent BS does not make him color blind.

And if you think about it it is quite easy for a person to prove his existence. Just ask Chris Rock.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Messengers are the proof of God, the only proof.

And the proof is their claim and nothing else? In that case, why do you deny other claims?
List of messiah claimants - Wikipedia, List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia, List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia, Prophet - Wikipedia.

 

[The Hammer]

No, you can only believe that you experienced the Gods. As you said yourself, that is ineffable. Your silly game was apparent immediately and then you topped it off by laughing at your own rather ignorant statement. (Huh?)

And please, just because someone can see through your rather transparent BS does not make him color blind.

And if you think about it it is quite easy for a person to prove his existence. Just ask Chris Rock.

*Whoosh*

Look, having a hand reach out and slap me doesn't prove you exist, anymore then your words would. Can you point to YOU? Not your chest, arm, or brain. YOU?

 

[Subduction Zone]

*Whoosh*

Look, having a hand reach out and slap me doesn't prove you exist, anymore then your words would. Can you point to YOU? Not your chest, arm, or brain. YOU?

LOL, no that is your whoosh.

You screwed up not me.

And sorry, but if you are playing your silly games when you react to a person's slap you just acknowledged that they are real.

 

[The Hammer]

LOL, no that is your whoosh.

You screwed up not me.

And sorry, but if you are playing your silly games when you react to a person's slap you just acknowledged that they are real.

Sure mate.

You still haven't told me how you'd show me that YOU exist. I can't prove I exist. I freely admit that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure mate.

You still haven't told me how you'd show me that YOU exist. I can't prove I exist. I freely admit that.

I already gave one example. Denial does not change facts.

But you also demonstrated that you do not know how and when to use evidence. The evidence required for a rational acceptance of a claim does depend on the claim. If a friend of yours says that he just bought a puppy you would probably accept it no questions asked. His statement was strong enough evidence on its own. If he claimed to have just bought a Ferrari you might demand a bit of evidence. And if he claimed to have just Mike Tysoned God's ears no amount of evidence would probably convince you.

 

[rational experiences]

Belief is first. As the human has to exist to apply just a humans scientific thesis. Thesis what a human believes only.

Claim. I am a human.

Belief I began somewhere else.

Claim two humans not your life had sex you were only sperm ovary.
Claim... any human talking now today is present in human life by those exact science conditions. Sperm ovary first human types.

Science conditions a human applying human facts only.

A human the claim. A human by the human claim.
The human the claim.
As a human the claim.
I am human the human.

Belief...once I wasn't a human.

Definition of a human by type species a one of human. Species is one.

A one human either an adult man owning sperm. No baby.

A one human an adult woman owning ovary. No baby.

One human. Claim. Not a baby.

Term claim Jesus a baby born.
Term claim Jesus a baby born then man life sacrificed lived on as a man baby life sacrificed.

Was hence living as half a man human after. The part of life a woman gave him O was from her cell. A woman's human type claim of life.

Was the human teaching how human DNA by claim was lost sacrificed out of human life by human chosen God earth technology. The claim not a belief.

From ground chemistry is only by claim grounds chemistry only.

Claim exact the first topic type chosen by a human.

Was the human one teaching. One word is the claim type is not a Belief.

If a human tries to coerce one word one placed item they are named a liar.

As human's thesis is belief only first.

 

[stvdv]

I usually start with "According to my beliefs" or I believe" but I still get accused of making claims because some people don't know the difference between a a belief and a claim.

Them "not knowing the difference" is not why they do it

 

[rational experiences]

In fact of life the human. Any human owns a lawful human right to claim.

If a human says I name this type of chemical as a human applied name. It is exact only. You then are not allowed to change the identified subject.

No science.

How it came about historically human advised science was a human liar.

 

[stvdv]

I am tired of being accused of making claims. I am not making any claims because I have nothing to claim since I am a nobody.

The Messengers of God made claims in their scriptures. The main things they claimed were that:

1) They were sent by God
2) That God communicated to them
3) That God exists

I believe their claims but I am making no claims since I have nothing to claim.

Atheists assert that I am making claims so they can say that I have the burden of proof, but I am making no claims just because I believe the claims of the Messengers of God, so I have no burden of proof.

The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim. The Messengers of God made the claims so they were responsible to meet the burden of proof. I believe that the true Messengers of God met their burden by providing evidence that supports their claims.

The evidence that supports the claims of any alleged Messenger of God is as follows:

1) Their Person (their character, as demonstrated by the life they led)
2) Their Revelation (the history, which is what they accomplished on their mission from God)
3) Their Words (the words that were attributed to them in scriptures, or what they wrote)

Anyone who wants to know if an alleged Messenger of God is a true Messenger of God is responsible to do their own research and look at the evidence that supports the claims of the alleged Messenger. I can point to where the evidence for Baha’u’llah resides but I am not responsible for doing other people’s homework.

According to my beliefs, God wants everyone to do their own homework and come to their own determinations because we are all responsible for our own beliefs. Baha’u’llah wrote that the faith of no man can be conditioned by anyone else because we are each accountable to God for our own beliefs on Judgment Day.

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

All this makes logical sense if people could only remove their bias and think about what I just said. Of course, it would require atheists to think differently than they have always thought about claims and evidence and see another point of view that they had never considered.

BEST OP EVER

AND CRYSTAL CLEAR

ESPECIALLY PHRASING IT

AS YOUR PERSONAL OPINION

 

[stvdv]

That's a claim.

Yours too (imho)