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Claims vs. Beliefs
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Which prophet besides Muhammad married a teen-aged girl?
All you know is that He married her, you do not know why or what He did after he married her.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, it is my opinion, not a claim, but you are free to disagree.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What makes you think it is a claim of mine?
It is a belief I have based upon the claims of Baha'u'llah.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Messengers are the proof of God, the only proof.
What does it make it then?
ppp
Well-Known Member
What makes you think that only the original person making the statement is making a claim?
This is your opinion. When you tell us your opinion as a retort it is a claim.
As long as you keep your opinions to yourself they are not claims. Telling others is when it becomes a claim.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Science leads to knowledge which is different from mere belief.
As Aron Ra likes to say "If you can't show it, you don't know it". In other words if you cannot rationally explain something then you do not know it, you only have belief.
Ineffability.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why did Bahá'u'lláh marry a 15-year-old girl when he was 18?
Marriages in nineteenth century Persia were often contracted between families and not based on romantic whim. The marriage was according to Islamic law and tradition.
See the following:
“In Iran women control marriages for their children, and much intrigue in domestic life revolves around marital matters. A mother is typically on the lookout for good marriage prospects at all times. Even if a mother is diffident about marriage brokering, she is obliged to "clear the path" for a marriage proposal. She does this by letting her counterpart in the other family know that a proposal is forthcoming, or would be welcome. She then must confer with her husband, who makes the formal proposal in a social meeting between the two families.”
Read more: history, people, clothing, traditions, women, beliefs, food, customs, family
For specific information regarding the marriages of Baha’u’llah see
Wives of Baha'u'llah
In the past when marriage age was very low, there might have been a few years between the two to allow the girl to grow up. The first is called ‘Aghed’ meaning knot. This is when the legal process takes place, both the parties and their guardian’s sign a marriage contract and a bride price or ‘mahr’ is set to guarantee the financial well being of the bride. The mahr is agreed on beforehand and at this time previously prepared documents will be signed. The second stage is the actual feasts and the celebrations, which traditionally lasts from 3 to 7 days. ~ Massoume Price
Iranian Marriage Ceremony, Its History & Symbolism
Besides the awesome answers listed above, I can also add that marriage acceptable age has changed a lo in the last 60 years, I remember talking to my grandmother, she married my grandfather when she was 14 and he was 22 years old, her first son, my oldest uncle was born when she was 16, also if your intent is to accuse Baha’u’llah of any wrong doing, let me remind you that even in the USA it was perfectly fine to marry an 11 year only.
Currently in the US:
· 2 states have a minimum age of 14: Alaska and North Carolina.
· 4 states have a minimum age of 15.
· 20 states have a minimum age of 16.
· 9 states have a minimum age of 17.
· 2 states have a minimum age of 18.
see my source here: Marriage age in the United States - Wikipedia
Also, the age of maturity is set at 15 in the Baha'i Faith. It would not be possible to marry before that point according to Baha'i law.
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Baháulláh-marry-a-15-year-old-girl-when-he-was-18
Believe whatever you want to believe. Just realize it is based upon ignorance of the customs and culture of Islam.
Bahá’u’lláh - Wives | Bahá’í Quotes
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not say that only the original person making a statement can make a claim.
I said that *I* am not making a claim.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
His first wife was 15 according to one source when he married her at the age of 18 In an arranged marriage. I can't really blame him for that considering the times. His second wife was 21 and a widow when he married her. He married his third wife at about 34 but I cannot find an age for her at the time they married yet:
Baháʼu'lláh's family - Wikipedia
I would think that the three wives would be a bigger strike than the age of his first wife. Though his third wife could have been of the same age and considering how much older he was then that is getting into the "Nope" stage.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is what I believe. Call it whatever you want to call it. Claim is just a word. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
No, it is not a claim unless I am making a claim and only I know if I am making a claim or not.
All opinions I share with others are not claims. A person has a right to a personal opinion without having to be accused of making a claim. Is every opinion you share a claim, or do you think that claims are limited to religious beliefs?
The BIGGER question is really this: Why are atheists so obsessed with the idea that I am making claims?
What is the significance of this obsession and need to be right about me making claims vs. having beliefs?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Which would also be a belief and is not an excuse.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not a strike at all.
It is necessary for the purpose of studying the Covenant to become informed of Bahá’u’lláh's marriages and His children. Bahá’u’lláh had married three wives before the declaration of His mission in 1863. As has already been stated, the Manifestation of God conducts His personal life according to the customs of the time. Polygamy was a normal practice in those days; indeed, it would have been abnormal for a man who belonged to the nobility to be monogamous in that society . . . It is clear that marriage customs in Persia during the 19th century are not comparable to those now current in most parts of the world. The mere mention of polygamy today will raise in people's minds associations of sex, lust and corruption. But this was not true in the case of people who contracted marriages according to Islamic law over a hundred years ago. Men practised polygamy not necessarily from lust but because they were conducting their lives within a society that had established certain customs and conventions to which all had to conform. Thus a young man happily submitted his will to that of his parents and carried out their wish in marrying someone of their choosing; thereafter he contracted further marriages as a routine matter.
Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, p. 19-21
Bahá’u’lláh - Wives | Bahá’í Quotes
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then why did you say that? In the context of the conversation that was what it was.