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Featured Claims vs. Beliefs

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Apr 25, 2022.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am tired of being accused of making claims. I am not making any claims because I have nothing to claim since I am a nobody.

    The Messengers of God made claims in their scriptures. The main things they claimed were that:

    1) They were sent by God
    2) That God communicated to them
    3) That God exists

    I believe their claims but I am making no claims since I have nothing to claim.

    Atheists assert that I am making claims so they can say that I have the burden of proof, but I am making no claims just because I believe the claims of the Messengers of God, so I have no burden of proof.

    The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim. The Messengers of God made the claims so they were responsible to meet the burden of proof. I believe that the true Messengers of God met their burden by providing evidence that supports their claims.

    The evidence that supports the claims of any alleged Messenger of God is as follows:

    1) Their Person (their character, as demonstrated by the life they led)
    2) Their Revelation (the history, which is what they accomplished on their mission from God)
    3) Their Words (the words that were attributed to them in scriptures, or what they wrote)

    Anyone who wants to know if an alleged Messenger of God is a true Messenger of God is responsible to do their own research and look at the evidence that supports the claims of the alleged Messenger. I can point to where the evidence for Baha’u’llah resides but I am not responsible for doing other people’s homework.

    According to my beliefs, God wants everyone to do their own homework and come to their own determinations because we are all responsible for our own beliefs. Baha’u’llah wrote that the faith of no man can be conditioned by anyone else because we are each accountable to God for our own beliefs on Judgment Day.

    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

    All this makes logical sense if people could only remove their bias and think about what I just said. Of course, it would require atheists to think differently than they have always thought about claims and evidence and see another point of view that they had never considered.
     
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  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer Fork-Beard
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    And often times those scriptures were written hundreds of years after said prophet lived, with none knowing them directly, who wrote Their "words" down. Jesus comes to mind.
     
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  3. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    So you have to believe the messenger is real to find out how to tell if a messenger is real.....
     
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  4. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    That's a claim. ;)
     
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  5. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Do you make the claim that the claims of these 'messengers' should be investigated?


    If *all* you are doing is saying you are convinced by their claims, then you have no burden of proof. If, however, you want to say that others should take these claims seriously, then you do.
     
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  6. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    You're claiming to believe they are true, right there.
     
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  7. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    In your mind, is that a claim?
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is true. It is true not only for Jesus but for all the other Messengers who appeared back in history. We have no original writings for any Messengers who came before the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
    That is not very good evidence but it is all we have.
     
  9. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    So ya say
     
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I did not say that. Nobody should ever believe a Messenger is real until they do their homework.
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Everything a person says is not a claim. :rolleyes:
    It was a statement if fact. I have nothing to claim since I am a nobody.
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    "can claim to have done their due diligence"
     
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  13. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like it to me. I need to believe Baha’u’llah to find out how to do my own homework. It doesn't make sense.
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Solution is simple...IF you are really tired of it...never trouble again...well almost never

    Start each post with:
    IMHO (or imo, though imho seems better)
     
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  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It is a teaching of my religion that if people want to know if the claims of the Messenger are true true they should investigate the Messenger by looking at the evidence for the Messenger.

    The Messengers should only be investigated if people want to know if they are really Messengers of God.
    Nobody is obligated to investigate.

    That is not a claim because I am not asserting that anything is the case.

    Claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
    claim means - Google Search
    No, I was not convinced by their claims. I knew what their claims were and I was convinced by the evidence that supported their claims.

    I am not saying that others should take the claims of the Messengers seriously. Whether they do or not is entirely up to them.

    I have no burden of proof just because I believe the claims are true. I made that clear in the OP. Everyone has their own burden to prove to themselves that the claims are true, if they want to know if they are true.
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I am not claiming to believe they are true, I am saying I believe their claims.

    Say:
    utter words so as to convey information, an opinion, a feeling or intention, or an instruction.
    say means - Google Search
     
    #16 Trailblazer, Apr 25, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No. It is a statement of my personal opinion.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, you do not need to believe in Baha'u'llah in order to know that you have to investigate Baha'u'llah (do your homework) before you will believe His claims. It is just common sense.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I usually start with "According to my beliefs" or I believe" but I still get accused of making claims because some people don't know the difference between a a belief and a claim. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    What, according to you, would make it a claim?
     
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