Churchianity has Hidden the REAL God and the REAL Christ for 2,000 years!

[sooda]

The names of the days do not matter. I have sat in many churches and heard it said that the first day of the week is the new sabbath or the Christian sabbath. It does not matter if it is Sunday or Monday or even Tuesday. The churches say that the FIRST day is the day they celebrate as the sabbath. But man has no authority to change what God has established. God rested on the seventh day and blessed that day forever. If you believe that Sunday is the SEVENTH day then that is your right. But if you say the first day is the sabbath, that is not your right. Do not even look at the names of the days. Do you honor the seventh day or the first day? One is God's holy day and one is not.

Internationally, Monday is the first day of the week.

 

[sojourner]

Now you are truly twisting things. YOU said you did not want to be a doormat by helping explain something to someone who asked for help understanding. This implied that Jesus was a doormat for helping others. I do NOT believe Jesus was a doormat but your twisted view of things seems to imply that. Jesus would help others, you seem interested only in yourself.

Jesus also didn't provide clear answers to baiting questions. So, who's twisting things? From the history of your post exchanges, it appears as though you're not all that interested in help, but rather in baiting -- like the religious authorities who asked Jesus if it was OK to heal on the Sabbath.

[edit] Here's a short answer that basically explains my rationale: The Law is a theophany -- it shows God. Jesus is also a theophany -- he shows God. Jesus embodies the Law, and thus fulfills it. By becoming the Body of Christ, we, therefore, also embody the Law, just by being followers of Jesus-the-theophany. "Observe the Law" doesn't mean "obey every fine point." It means to see the Law for what it is: not legalese, but rather a paradigm of living life as a theophany.

 

[sojourner]

The churches say that the FIRST day is the day they celebrate as the sabbath. But man has no authority to change what God has established.

Actually, the Church does have that authority; Jesus granted that authority to the apostles, and they to their successors.

 

[metis]

Actually, the Church does have that authority; Jesus granted that authority to the apostles, and they to their successors.

And besides having that authority, some forget that Jesus gave Two Commandments, with a great many ramifications of course. Thus, observing Shabbat is not mandatory unless one is Jew. Both Jesus and Paul mention this, and it also is covered in many of the epistles.

Thus, the "law of love" is to dominate all that we believe in and do.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Jesus also didn't provide clear answers to baiting questions. So, who's twisting things? From the history of your post exchanges, it appears as though you're not all that interested in help, but rather in baiting -- like the religious authorities who asked Jesus if it was OK to heal on the Sabbath.

[edit] Here's a short answer that basically explains my rationale: The Law is a theophany -- it shows God. Jesus is also a theophany -- he shows God. Jesus embodies the Law, and thus fulfills it. By becoming the Body of Christ, we, therefore, also embody the Law, just by being followers of Jesus-the-theophany. "Observe the Law" doesn't mean "obey every fine point." It means to see the Law for what it is: not legalese, but rather a paradigm of living life as a theophany.

Thank you. I do appreciate an honest answer. That was not so hard was it?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

And besides having that authority, some forget that Jesus gave Two Commandments, with a great many ramifications of course. Thus, observing Shabbat is not mandatory unless one is Jew. Both Jesus and Paul mention this, and it also is covered in many of the epistles.

Thus, the "law of love" is to dominate all that we believe in and do.

I would honestly appreciate it if you would mention a few of the verses where Jesus and Paul mention this. I am honesyly open to information I may have missed. I will personally acknowledge my mistake when I see the verses that describe this.

 

[metis]

I would honestly appreciate it if you would mention a few of the verses where Jesus and Paul mention this. I am honesyly open to information I may have missed. I will personally acknowledge my mistake when I see the verses that describe this.

Sure:
Matthew 22[34]But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

As far as Paul is concerned:
Romans 13:[8] Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Cooky]

I would honestly appreciate it if you would mention a few of the verses where Jesus and Paul mention this. I am honesyly open to information I may have missed. I will personally acknowledge my mistake when I see the verses that describe this.

God said to us:

"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" -- Jesus Christ

Mark 2:27

 

[Cooky]

I would honestly appreciate it if you would mention a few of the verses where Jesus and Paul mention this. I am honesyly open to information I may have missed. I will personally acknowledge my mistake when I see the verses that describe this.

God tells us that it is wrong to judge anyone for not making holy the sabbath. This is the New Covenant.

Colossians 2:14
Colossians 2:15
Colossians 2:16

...He equates the Sabbath to the New Moon and meat-eating requirements, of which we are also no longer required to exclude pork.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Sure:
Matthew 22[34]But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

As far as Paul is concerned:
Romans 13:[8] Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Just an idea. Do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, are all ways of loving your neighbor. So that does not sound like the commandments to not kill, not steal, and not commit adultery are no longer in effect. It sounds like Jesus is emphasizing the need to keep the commandments. I am looking for where Jesus says that the commandments are no longer valid. I do appreciate your help and realize I may sometimes sound like a jerk but I am really not a bad person and do not think you are a bad person. I just tend to interpret words as I see them and seeing Jesus say "keep the commandments" does not sound like he is saying we do not need to keep the commandments.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God said to us:

"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" -- Jesus Christ

Mark 2:27

What does this have to do with weather we should remember the sabbath? If the sabbath was made for me, it might be a good idea if I remember it. That is all the commandment says, "remember the sabbath".

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God tells us that it is wrong to judge anyone for not making holy the sabbath. This is the New Covenant.

Colossians 2:14
Colossians 2:15
Colossians 2:16

...He equates the Sabbath to the New Moon and meat-eating requirements, of which we are also no longer required to exclude pork.

It is wrong for men to judge other men. That does not mean God will not judge. You see my problem. Jesus very clearly says, "keep the commandments". A few verses say we should not judge others and things like that. But none say clearly that we should not keep the commandments. That is where my understanding breaks down.

 

[Cooky]

It is wrong for men to judge other men. That does not mean God will not judge. You see my problem. Jesus very clearly says, "keep the commandments". A few verses say we should not judge others and things like that. But none say clearly that we should not keep the commandments. That is where my understanding breaks down.

If Jesus says it's wrong to judge anyone in regards to their observances of the Sabbath or New Moon, specifically, then Jesus will not judge it on judgement day.

...It's a non-issue, by the very Word of God..! And those 7th-Day adventists, who judge Catholicism and Sunday church goers are not doing Gods will but their own.

 

[Cooky]

What does this have to do with weather we should remember the sabbath? If the sabbath was made for me, it might be a good idea if I remember it. That is all the commandment says, "remember the sabbath".

In the previous passage , which is Mark 2:26, Jesus (Son of Man) broke the Sabbath by giving his friends a special kind of food that they were not supposed to eat. Then in Mark 2:27, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

...This should be a clear indication that man's Sabbath is his own, to do as he wishes with in accordance to God's New Covenant.

 

[Cooky]

Jesus very clearly says, "keep the commandments".

The commandments do not say to keep holy the 7th day.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The commandments do not say to keep holy the 7th day.

But they DO say "REMEMBER the sabbath". And God did rest on the seventh day after working six days. I do not know if the seventh day is Tuesday or Friday or what. But many churches openly and freely dsay that they observe the FIRST day of the week. Again, I do not know if the first day is Sunday or Wednesday or what. But if you freely say you are observing the FIRST day then you are not remembering the seventh day. Can you even see part of why this is confusing to me? God says remember the day he rested but churches say "no", we are going to honor the first day.

 

[metis]

Just an idea. Do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, are all ways of loving your neighbor. So that does not sound like the commandments to not kill, not steal, and not commit adultery are no longer in effect. It sounds like Jesus is emphasizing the need to keep the commandments.

What in essence he is saying, imo, is that if you "love one another...", then you won't kill, steal, ... These items deal with interpersonal relationships, thus much less on items that are more ritualistic, such as keeping kosher, observing Shabbat, etc.

I am looking for where Jesus says that the commandments are no longer valid.

Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”
7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”
10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”
5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

I do appreciate your help and realize I may sometimes sound like a jerk but I am really not a bad person

You certainly don't sound like a jerk to me.

and do not think you are a bad person.

Then you haven't talked to my wife!

BTW, in two weeks we'll be celebrating our 53 years of marriage.

 

[Cooky]

But they DO say "REMEMBER the sabbath". And God did rest on the seventh day after working six days. I do not know if the seventh day is Tuesday or Friday or what. But many churches openly and freely dsay that they observe the FIRST day of the week. Again, I do not know if the first day is Sunday or Wednesday or what. But if you freely say you are observing the FIRST day then you are not remembering the seventh day. Can you even see part of why this is confusing to me? God says remember the day he rested but churches say "no", we are going to honor the first day.

I can see how this is troubling for individual Christians, yes. What I can't understand is how some sects (7th Day Adventists) encourage the judgement of others (Catholics, Anglicans, etc.) on how they observe the Sabbath, when God advised us NOT to judge others in regards to their observances of the sabbath or new moon.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What in essence he is saying, imo, is that if you "love one another...", then you won't kill, steal, ... These items deal with interpersonal relationships, thus much less on items that are more ritualistic, such as keeping kosher, observing Shabbat, etc.


Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”
7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”
10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”
5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

You certainly don't sound like a jerk to me.

Then you haven't talked to my wife!

BTW, in two weeks we'll be celebrating our 53 years of marriage.

You sound like a saint. I will study carefully what you have said.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I can see how this is troubling for individual Christians, yes. What I can't understand is how some sects (7th Day Adventists) encourage the judgement of others (Catholics, Anglicans, etc.) on how they observe the Sabbath, when God advised us NOT to judge others in regards to their observances of the sabbath or new moon.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

I do NOT judge anyone. But I just have trouble understanding how some can openly say they honor the first day instead of the seventh. And again, maybe the seventh day is Sunday or maybe Tuesday. But they should at least say they are honoring what they consider to be the seventh day amd not the first day.