Church

[Kenny]

Before what? Churches defined how?

before the dates you gave and churches defined as structures built for it. (In as much as I would assume that there weren't as many Synagogues in Corinth.

 

[Grandliseur]

I suspect church began because some people, when time permitted, sought out a place where conversation differed than that which you would find in the average day to day life. Most people find life challenging enough that they don't have time to think about it.
It wasn't thought of or called church at this time, just a place to meet. I suspect that no matter where these conversations started they all ended at "What's it all about?". There were no names for the different thoughts put forth (at this time) but they were all there. Some believed that life came from without, some from with in and some thought of it as a fleeting moment. But they all focused on the same question, not fighting with each out.
Now we have churches and the only questions are with regrads to understanding what is being taught(thought of you when I wrote these words, Laika or more specifiically Communism). There are traditions, rituals, history and pagentry to occupy the masses and some honory degree for those that wish to master the teachings. And the leadership has trouble with transparency.

What happened between then and now, what is the missing link?

Well, we see in acts that the believers came together regularly, as in weekly at the very least, possible more early on, to do worship and to talk about dogma, etc. They kept up with the writings of the apostles and the important elders even should they were removed by large distances from Jerusalem. This was done by letter, and by visiting elders, apostles.
Church
The word pointed to the group of people in each location that were Christian, not to the edifice.

KJV: Acts 9: 31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judæa and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Strong's - churches:
01577:
1577 ekklesia ek-klay-see'-ah from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church​

Dogma
Back then the word in the Bible and by the apostles constituted the dogma of belief. It was not controlled by a church leadership as it mostly is today.
As we see, those who studied scripture to verify what they were told to believe in were praised. It was a Sola Scripture approach. Each one had to make sure of the beliefs they were taught.

They were taught to reject that which wasn't in harmony with their scripture.
Today
Most churches demand that you get baptized into their church, not into Christ. Such baptism are not as they should be, into Christ.

What we should do is to try to learn from others, if they are found to speak the truth of the word. But, with verification of all things on our part. We must not let ourselves be coerced by others be they church leaders or not. It is make sure, make sure, make sure, by study, study, study.

 

[Tmac]

Not sure I follow you.

Maybe it would help if you could see that the Jews (I don't even know if that is a proper name, forgive me if I am being crude) have a history that predates them being known as the Jews, in a lot of the ways they were just like everyone else and learned to become who they were like everyone else. They didn't start as you now see them, as a matter of fact far from it.

 

[Tmac]

Ya, I "read the book" many times over, but did you forget the part whereas Jesus said he came only for the Jews? Also, can you show us where Jesus supposedly had "disdain for them"?

And, if they "were of Jewish decent" [actually "descent"], then they're "Jews" since it is a nationality.

In your many times did you ever come across the words Sadducees and Pharisees?

 

[DavidFirth]

I suspect church began because some people, when time permitted, sought out a place where conversation differed than that which you would find in the average day to day life. Most people find life challenging enough that they don't have time to think about it.
It wasn't thought of or called church at this time, just a place to meet. I suspect that no matter where these conversations started they all ended at "What's it all about?". There were no names for the different thoughts put forth (at this time) but they were all there. Some believed that life came from without, some from with in and some thought of it as a fleeting moment. But they all focused on the same question, not fighting with each out.
Now we have churches and the only questions are with regrads to understanding what is being taught(thought of you when I wrote these words, Laika or more specifiically Communism). There are traditions, rituals, history and pagentry to occupy the masses and some honory degree for those that wish to master the teachings. And the leadership has trouble with transparency.

What happened between then and now, what is the missing link?

I think church has changed meaning, maybe several times, since Jesus founded the first church. The church Jesus founded was a place where people could share their faith with one another and as a whole. Church is very important for the spiritual life of the Christian, though some churches turn people off by doing other than what Christ and Paul taught that it ought to be doing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In your many times did you ever come across the words Sadducees and Pharisees?

Your point?

 

[Tmac]

Maybe...

Here's an interesting article.

Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple? | History | Smithsonian

One of man's first temples.

A place of natural awe, to gather, wonder and deal with their fears.

Animals and other natural predators became demons and Heroes who fought the predators and won became gods. They probably celebrated the stories of heroes, maybe even imagined the watched over the brave and carried the fallen to a place of rest. In this case the temple/burial ground.

The temple where the spirit of the heroic remained. Go there and speak with the ancients to gather courage and ask for blessings. You'd bring gifts to please the heroic ancients to obtain their blessings. You needed caretakers for the site who became priest and survived off the gifts brought. Eventually demanding a gift for the blessing.

These places held the authority of the ancient heroes/gods. Chieftains would seek out this blessing before battle. Those that were successful in battle were chosen/blessed by the gods.

The priests held divine authority they could give to a chieftain of their choosing. Having divine authority allowed a chieftain to gather more followers, become more powerful. Tribal leadership and the priesthood began to walk hand in hand.

Temples became a place of divine authority which gave that authority to the tribal leaders.

I recall when president Bush said something about God being on his side in the war against terror.

That's how I imagine it happening anyway.

The part about a place of natural awe (is a little shaky) but the rest, to gather, wonder and deal with their fears. Sounds good.
Do you think they, at one time said, okay we've got it figured out so now lets turn it into what churches are today, there had to be objections, hell, I'm objecting and I wasn't even there.

 

[Tmac]

I think church has changed meaning, maybe several times, since Jesus founded the first church. The church Jesus founded was a place where people could share their faith with one another and as a whole. Church is very important for the spiritual life of the Christian, though some churches turn people off by doing other than what Christ and Paul taught that it ought to be doing.

Wow, David. I don't know where to start with your post except to say for you it all starts with Jesus.

 

[Tmac]

Your point?

Your motive?

 

[Tmac]

Sorry. I thought that it was a cogent argument laid out with sufficient evidence to be at least thought provoking if not persuasive.



You're probably aware that I'm an atheist. My words were, "Perhaps it was taught that the gods expected it." I'm pretty sure that no god ever taught that - just men speaking for gods of their own creation. It's an age-old, tried and true method for assuming authority that you wouldn't have if you admitted that such opinions were actually your own.



Then you've misunderstood what I wrote. I'm passionate about justice. And truth. And societal well-being. And the future of man and the other life on earth. Those are the chief reasons I am such an avid antitheist. I find organized Christianity and Islam antithetical to those values. And I understand how off putting that is to those who value congenial conversation and a positive attitude over countenancing issues that may require criticism of cherished beliefs, such as the one that the church is an agent of social good, or that faith is a virtue.

Do you not believe that there were people there (the early gathering places) who weren't afraid of their imagination? (early atheist before the believer/nonbeliever wars)? And even they let the church evolve to what it is today. There is plenty of blame for how it happened and plenty of blame for letting it continue to be this way. Do you think pointing out who/what was responsible will fix the problem, if you considered it a problem?

 

[DavidFirth]

Wow, David. I don't know where to start with your post except to say for you it all starts with Jesus.

Yes, sir, it does. For me it ends with Him, too.

 

[metis]

In your many times did you ever come across the words Sadducees and Pharisees?

Obviously, and Jesus and Paul, at the least, operated out of a Pharisee paradigm.

Jesus' criticism of the Pharisees was essentially a "family dispute" whereas it appears that he was at least partially upset over the "oral law", which he labels as "laws made by men". The Sadducees also disputed the "oral law".

The "Pharisees" were really more of a movement than a monolithic group, and there were what some call "liberal Pharisees" that had at least somewhat similar beliefs with Jesus. And Paul, upon arrest, says that he is a Pharisee, not was a Pharisee.

Again, Jesus and the Twelve were all Jews working from Jewish paradigm, and I have doubts that they would be too pleased if they could read your condemnation of "the Jews".

 

[BSM1]

Maybe it would help if you could see that the Jews (I don't even know if that is a proper name, forgive me if I am being crude) have a history that predates them being known as the Jews, in a lot of the ways they were just like everyone else and learned to become who they were like everyone else. They didn't start as you now see them, as a matter of fact far from it.

Exactly. That's the point. Other people of the time of Moses "choose" a whole laundry list of gods and/or religions. The Hebrew slaves were the only group as a whole that choose to worship and follow the paternal and singular Deity known as YHWH; even the ancient world was given the opportunity to accept the Hebrew God.

 

[Nakosis]

The part about a place of natural awe (is a little shaky) but the rest, to gather, wonder and deal with their fears. Sounds good.
Do you think they, at one time said, okay we've got it figured out so now lets turn it into what churches are today, there had to be objections, hell, I'm objecting and I wasn't even there.

I don't think they had as much access to information as we do today. Religious leaders were the source of information about the world they lived in. Much like scientists today. I suspect there were some objections but most were like sheep following the herd.

 

[Tmac]

Yes, sir, it does. For me it ends with Him, too.

Time will tell.

 

[Ponder This]

What happened between then and now, what is the missing link?

The next generation is always under the illusion that are smarter than the previous one.

 

[Riders]

Sense the Catholics were the first church In sure they used terms like Mass and Parish.

Monks had the Monastery as well.

 

[Riders]

Maybe...

Here's an interesting article.

Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple? | History | Smithsonian

One of man's first temples.



A place of natural awe, to gather, wonder and deal with their fears.

Animals and other natural predators became demons and Heroes who fought the predators and won became gods. They probably celebrated the stories of heroes, maybe even imagined the watched over the brave and carried the fallen to a place of rest. In this case the temple/burial ground.

The temple where the spirit of the heroic remained. Go there and speak with the ancients to gather courage and ask for blessings. You'd bring gifts to please the heroic ancients to obtain their blessings. You needed caretakers for the site who became priest and survived off the gifts brought. Eventually demanding a gift for the blessing.

These places held the authority of the ancient heroes/gods. Chieftains would seek out this blessing before battle. Those that were successful in battle were chosen/blessed by the gods.

The priests held divine authority they could give to a chieftain of their choosing. Having divine authority allowed a chieftain to gather more followers, become more powerful. Tribal leadership and the priesthood began to walk hand in hand.

Temples became a place of divine authority which gave that authority to the tribal leaders.

I recall when president Bush said something about God being on his side in the war against terror.

That's how I imagine it happening anyway.

Its all true and goods however not the first Christian church.

When was the term church first used?

 

[Nakosis]

Its all true and goods however not the first Christian church.

When was the term church first used?

I didn't think this was the question asked in the OP. More how religious gathering in community came about in the first place. For the word "church" itself, I believe Jayhawker provided a good explanation.

 

[Tmac]

The next generation is always under the illusion that are smarter than the previous one.

I hold myself responsible for making myself clear and I promise I'll do a better job in the future.