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Church Planting

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Speak for yourself. I see lots of people who aren't into debating and arguing and otherwise 'convincing'. But yes, for those people who do thing they are smarter than everyone else, that is one of the things they do.

I have no reason to convince you of anything.

Have you never had to convince other people to do something that you want them to do ? Never ?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Have you never had to convince other people to do something that you want them to do ? Never ?

I probably tried to convince students to do their homework, sure. But whether or not I was successful is open to debate. As for religion, can't recall I have other than to try to convince them to stop proselytising, just like how this forum doesn't accept it.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Yes, and that is one of them. It was just one example ... there are many others. Proselytising causes more problems than it solves, and that's why many countries have banned it, and are looking into banning it. The sooner the better, in my view. It's against human dignity.

Countries like Iran, Somalia and Saudi Arabia, right ?
Curiously, there is indeed a relationship between respecting human dignity and banning proselytism, but it is quite opposite of what you would expect.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I probably tried to convince students to do their homework, sure. But whether or not I was successful is open to debate. As for religion, can't recall I have other than to try to convince them to stop proselytising, just like how this forum doesn't accept it.

You have tried to convince people more times than you might have noticed.
For starters, if you are a teacher you had to convince your employer to hire you.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
No they are not. It's deception and bribery.



And there you have it.
Please. more nonsense. I can´t imagine what you mean by deception. Ae you suggesting that they are being deceived by a ¨false religion¨ ? There goes your self proclaimed tolerance.

Bribery ? You mean Christian churches offer counseling, health screening and education, food, clothing etc.? What difference does it make to you ? If they believe their life can be better and choose that path, what difference does it make to you ? Their spiritual choices are none of your business.

Why not just admit it, you are hostile to Christianity, you resent people of your faith abandoning it for Christianity.

You do not want people to make their own religious decisions, you want them in tent of your religion.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Countries like Iran, Somalia and Saudi Arabia, right ?
Curiously, there is indeed a relationship between respecting human dignity and banning proselytism, but it is quite opposite of what you would expect.
Several states in India have banned it now, realising the harm it causes. Individuals can ban it by putting a sign on their doors. Some European countries frown on it. I'd have to do more research.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You have tried to convince people more times than you might have noticed.
For starters, if you are a teacher you had to convince your employer to hire you.
Not the same, but sure. I sent out resumes like everyone else.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The irony is that these malevolent activities to impose Christianity on non Christians are fuelled by rightist forces of rich countries.

Say WHAAAAAT? :facepalm:

The death toll continues to rise in India's Orissa state as a wave of violence against Christians shows no sign of stopping.

Hindu mobs have damaged more than a dozen churches and homes, and destroyed a Christian orphanage in an arson attack which left one woman dead. The violence has so far left 11 dead, mainly Christians.

More Christians killed in India violence
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Christ did say “Remove planks before your own eyes“. Are you sure that the proselytisers are clean? With so much of us and them’ sense prevalent, I do not think that Christ is present in evangelical activities of bribing.

False Christianity will be blown away by winds of atheism.
No one has defined what this bribery is. What do you mean by ¨clean¨. ?
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Please. more nonsense. I can´t imagine what you mean by deception. Ae you suggesting that they are being deceived by a ¨false religion¨ ? There goes your self proclaimed tolerance.

I did not say false religion. I don't consider any religion or deity false. I am very tolerant of other religions and beliefs. You may now don your "I Been Punked By The Idol Worshiper" hat. We've given examples of deception.

Bribery ? You mean Christian churches offer counseling, health screening and education, food, clothing etc.?

In exchange for conversion to Christianity.

If they believe their life can be better and choose that path

In exchange for conversion to Christianity, a religion they might never have chosen if not for $$ incentives.

Their spiritual choices are none of your business.

Nor are they the business of missionaries and evangelists. India has a 5,000+ year unbroken history of Hinduism. Who are these missionaries to come in and tell people Christianity is true and Hinduism is false? To say "we know better than you" is patronizing, condescending and offensive. Christianity is true for a Christian; it is not true for a Hindu.

Why not just admit it, you are hostile to Christianity, you resent people of your faith abandoning it for Christianity.

You do not want people to make their own religious decisions, you want them in tent of your religion.

I don't resent anyone making any kind of religious conversion or decision if they do it with full knowledge and of their own volition. But not because they've had a carrot dangled in front of them. I don't like dishonesty and insincerity. I am not hostile to Christianity at all. I am hostile to many Christians' behavior and tactics. I was Catholic for half my life. My family is Catholic. Most of my friends and acquaintances are Christian.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
No one has defined what this bribery is.

"We'll build a school, a hospital, open a free clinic. Oh but btw, you have to be baptized as a Christian."

Seriously? Why not just build the school, the hospital, the free clinic because it's the "Christian" thing to do?

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Matthew 25:35-40

Nothing in there about conditions. Did I skip a verse? :shrug:
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Say WHAAAAAT? :facepalm:

The death toll continues to rise in India's Orissa state as a wave of violence against Christians shows no sign of stopping.

Hindu mobs have damaged more than a dozen churches and homes, and destroyed a Christian orphanage in an arson attack which left one woman dead. The violence has so far left 11 dead, mainly Christians.

More Christians killed in India violence


2008, from Christian publication ... I'm not sure how things are today, but this wiki article gives a more balanced story, in my view anyway. Religious violence in Odisha - Wikipedia
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
[

Say WHAAAAAT? :facepalm:

The death toll continues to rise in India's Orissa state as a wave of violence against Christians shows no sign of stopping.

Hindu mobs have damaged more than a dozen churches and homes, and destroyed a Christian orphanage in an arson attack which left one woman dead. The violence has so far left 11 dead, mainly Christians.

More Christians killed in India violence

No one has defined what this bribery is. What do you mean by ¨clean¨. ?
....


Please do not divert from the main issue. It was noted in the first post that since 2000 there has been rise of the rightist politics that focuses on religious differences. It was pointed out that the arrogant and aggressive proselytism has created tension in society and helped intolerance to grow.

Church Planting | Gospel For India | Reach the Unreached at any cost
Church Planting — Central India Christian Mission
https://missionindia.org/church-planter-training/
...

One group's evangelization is another group's prose!ytism, which is violence on culture and belief system of the target group.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
[




....


Please do not divert from the main issue. It was noted in the first post that since 2000 there has been rise of the rightist politics that focuses on religious differences. It was pointed out that the arrogant and aggressive proselytism has created tension in society and helped intolerance to grow.

Church Planting | Gospel For India | Reach the Unreached at any cost
Church Planting — Central India Christian Mission
https://missionindia.org/church-planter-training/
...

One group's evangelization is another group's prose!ytism, which is violence on culture and belief system of the target group.
Some of these groups have had some very questionable things going on as well. One can google the 'charity' with 'charity watch'.

GFA World ... from the article ... 37 million US ordered to be repaid to donors.
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
Some of these groups have had some very questionable things going on as well. One can google the 'charity' with 'chraity watch'.

GFA World ... from the article ... 37 million US ordered to be repaid to donors.


Yes. Thank you. The belief of the missionaries that they are performing God’s work is one-sided view.

Very tolerant peaceful religious leaders have spoken against proselytism.

It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world's progress toward peace. Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man? -- Mahatma Gandhi (Harijan: January 30, 1937)

Religion is important for humanity, but it should evolve with humanity. The first priority is to establish and develop the principle of pluralism in all religious traditions. If we, the religious leaders, cultivate a sincere pluralistic attitude, then everything will be more simple. It is good that most religious leaders are at least beginning to recognize other traditions, even though they may not approve of them. The next step is to accept that the idea of propagating religion is outdated. It no longer suits the times. -- H.H. Dalai Lama (All the People: A Conversation with the Dalai Lama on Money, Politics, and Life as it Could Be, 1999)
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Missions such as the one shown below will irk anyone. I ask Christians to replace ‘Jesus’ by ‘Muhammad’ or ‘Krishna’ or ‘Buddha’ and then see the effect.

https://missionindia.org/

Why is it necessary for every Indian to hear about Jesus? And why should it be the mission of a group of Christians? Will not such a mission engender animosity and tensions?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
[




....


Please do not divert from the main issue. It was noted in the first post that since 2000 there has been rise of the rightist politics that focuses on religious differences. It was pointed out that the arrogant and aggressive proselytism has created tension in society and helped intolerance to grow.

Church Planting | Gospel For India | Reach the Unreached at any cost
Church Planting — Central India Christian Mission
https://missionindia.org/church-planter-training/
...

One group's evangelization is another group's prose!ytism, which is violence on culture and belief system of the target group.
violence on culture?????

You mean, if I love my neighbor as myself, I'm being violent?

Never heard of that definition... maybe its a cultural thing.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I didn't read anything about forced conversions.

India has been the birthplace of major pluralistic religions. It has also accommodated peacefully people of other religions, which are not so pluralistic.

When Christians and Muslims assume superiority and try to indoctrinate poor people through inducements (or by violence), tension is created.
 
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