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Church Planting

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by atanu, May 10, 2019.

  1. atanu

    atanu Member
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    I am a left leaning spiritual person. I believe in omnipresence of Brahman within beings and without. I believe that tolerance for religious pluralism is the hallmark of the Vedas and India, in general.

    But my universalism is challenged all the time by Hindu rightists who point out to vicious planned church planting activities. Despite my basic belief I find that my right leaning Hindu friends have valid points. Evangelical missions are out to destroy peace in world.

    The irony is that these malevolent activities to impose Christianity on non Christians are fuelled by rightist forces of rich countries.

    The Question Of Evangelism In India

    This old 2011 article summarised the issues.

    Aggressive activities of these groups bordering on money laundering, imo, has been a major cause for mass grievance and catalyst for rise of Hindutva forces in India.

    ...
     
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  2. atanu

    atanu Member
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  3. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    I think the need to feel superior to others is the root cause of most human failings. Arrogant behavior satisfies it.

    Traditional Christianity's offer of Heaven (reward) or Hell (punishment) is a powerful motivator in recruitment on its own but it also makes a strong appeal to the arrogant side of human nature since God has Heaven reserved only for Christians.

    Tolerance for religious pluralism only appeals to the good side of human nature. Traditional Christianity appeals to both the good and the arrogant sides of our nature.
     
    #3 joe1776, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  4. Sirona

    Sirona Hindu Wannabe

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    A little off-topic ... but reading the 2011 article made me somewhat feel better since somebody claimed the journal about my conversion would incite hate between Hindus and Christians. Everyone has a right to their opinion but I feel that my observations might not be entirely wrong after all.
     
  5. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    By what means are they imposing their religion on others ?
     
  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Are Christians raiding villages and forcing people to convert, at gunpoint ?

    What is ¨bordering on money laundering ¨ how does that work on the border ?

    Evangelism is a ¨malevolent¨ activity ?

    I think you are upset because people are offered an informed choice, and they choose in a way you don´t like.

    Christians would like to see the world converted, because we believe the individual is infinitely better off by doing so.

    However, conversion in a forced or underhanded way is diametrically opposed to our teachings.

    Christ said that we are to share our message, and if it is rejected, we are to move on down the road.

    I note in your article that the many millions spent by Christians in aid of poor Indians , lower caste Indians ignored by their own people, is happily accepted, but ask them to listen to the Gospel and it is a bad thing.

    I do agree that the evangelism efforts should be made by Indian Christians, if they are funded well, so what ?

    You are using such florid language because the people are given the opportunity, and they freely choose to become Christians, their choice, not yours, not the Indian Government´s, not their fellow citizens.

    I love the term ¨ church planting¨. If no one attends these plants, then they die.

    Apparently the plants are surviving and growing.
     
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  7. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Dangling the carrot in front of the horse, i.e. bribery. Among other things, offering $$ inducements for parents to send their children to religious schools. The children, and often their parents, who are less than advantaged are led away from Hinduism to Christianity. It's promises that simply cannot be kept. It's the same promises Jesus made to the disenfranchised and downtrodden of his time and place, the promises of a better life after this one.

    There's a story I heard of many years ago showing that even the church is not above deception. A school bus full of children from a Catholic school was stuck on a road, the bus had broken down. It was an easy fix for the driver, but the nun took advantage of it for some indoctrination. She had the bus driver delay his repairs while she executed her deception. She told the children to pray to both Ganesha and to Jesus asking one of them to show who was more powerful by fixing the bus. So the children prayed to Ganesha, but after a time nothing happened. Then the children prayed to Jesus. The nun signaled to the bus driver to make the repair. Within minutes the bus started and they were underway. The nun then explained how the Hindu gods are false gods, but the one true God, Jesus, rescued them. That is unconscionable.
     
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  8. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Christ did say “Remove planks before your own eyes“. Are you sure that the proselytisers are clean? With so much of us and them’ sense prevalent, I do not think that Christ is present in evangelical activities of bribing.

    False Christianity will be blown away by winds of atheism.
     
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  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    No they are not. It's deception and bribery.

    And there you have it.
     
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  10. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    On this particular case, aren't their lives being improved right now by getting the extra money ?
    As much as I would prefer if everyone behaved for altruistic reasons, I still prefer this over not offering help at all to those who need it.
    It doesn't seem all that different from a businessman donating money as a mean to boost sales.

    I would certainly not approve this sort of thing. Thanks for sharing.
     
  11. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    At the cost of abandoning their cultural and religious traditions? Absolutely not. If Christianity can't gain followers on its own merits, what does it say that it has to buy followers? Followers who are largely simple rural villagers. They do't even know they're being bought and taken advantage of.
     
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  12. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    That implies their cultural and religious traditions are better than the ones they are being converted into.
    For if you treated both traditions as equal in a sense then the mere exchange would neither be an advantageous nor disavantageous.
    I can't agree that one tradition is better than the other.
     
  13. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I'm not saying one is better than the other; better or worse are relative. Except for the $$ inducements, there's no demonstrable reason that the Hindu should be drawn away from his ancestral religion. Conversion done of one's own volition is one thing, but being bribed or deceived into it is unconscionable. When backed into a corner many a person has done things they ordinarily wouldn't do. I don't fault the Hindu parents for sending their kids to the Christian school in order to improve their material standing. Everyone has their price. What I find reprehensible is that the missionaries take advantage of this because they have nothing else to offer, i.e. there is no more spiritual comfort in their beliefs than the Hindu family has in theirs.
     
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  14. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I have a problem with the basic premise of proselytizing. It's saying "I have something you need, that would make your life better." It's an assumption that shouldn't even be there, as it devalues humanity. Who has the right to say their way is better? It is condescending by it's very nature. Just leave people alone to be who they are. I'm against it in any direction. If Hindus were using deception to convert Christians, I'd have the same problem.

    We live in a huge diverse world with huge numbers of ways of life and cultures. All should be respected for who they are, provided they're not doing harm to those around them. Whatever happened to genuine curiousity about others and the way they live, and the respect that ensues if you open your eyes?
     
  15. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    If you are not saying that one is better than the other then where is the loss ?
    I think it is perfectly reasonable to question how it is being done ( in other words, I mean it is fair to criticize it ), but at the end of the day, what are those families losing ? Are they really not getting something else in exchange that is worth at least as much as what they are giving away ?
     
  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Sometime they lose their family. A man takes a job in the middle east just to put bread on the table. While he's gone, the missionaries befriend his wife, who is lonely. Over time they convince her there is more to the church than to the temple. When he comes home, he gets greeted by a recent convert, his own wife. Arguments ensue, and divorce happens. Some wonderful religion ... in the business of breaking up families. But for the predators, its not a loss, but a victory.
     
    #16 Vinayaka, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  17. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    We are always frequently trying to convince each other about a lot of things, why must religion be untouched ?

    If your parents, or your society as a whole, make you engage, from birth, into whatever cultural or religious practice they find fit regardless of how you feel about it, that's fair game. That's completely acceptable and almost no one will dare to question it.
    If, however, someone else from a different culture and religion comes along and tries to convince you into adopting his/her practice then that's abominable, even though they have less power over you than your parents, just because this arbitrary line has been drawn. Go figure.
     
  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Speak for yourself. I see lots of people who aren't into debating and arguing and otherwise 'convincing'. But yes, for those people who do thing they are smarter than everyone else, that is one of the things they do.

    I have no reason to convince you of anything.
     
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  19. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Divorces can happen for a ton of different reasons and it is not something inherent to converting into Christianity.
     
  20. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Yes, and that is one of them. It was just one example ... there are many others. Proselytising causes more problems than it solves, and that's why many countries have banned it, and are looking into banning it. The sooner the better, in my view. It's against human dignity.
     
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