Church of Satan (CoS) and the Vampire Temple (ToV)

[Kenaz]

Hey all,

I was browsing the Letters to the Devil (LttD) forums and I noticed that there seems to be a lot of dual CoS and ToV members there. I know LttD is not the "official" message board of the CoS, but it is a popular message board for members.

Anyhow, I've ran across this organization before, but I find it odd that such an organization as the Vampire Temple is supported or taken in amongst the Satanic community.

Looking at their website at http://www.vampiretemple.com I can't tell if all the cockiness and seemingly heaping loads of dogmatic, vampire-themed claims are there purposely to test their motto, "Test Everything. Believe Nothing" or what. Anyone know more about this organization and it's ties with the CoS?

Nonetheless, ironically, I do enjoy their motto. Seems like they're not even following it, though. Confused, as ****.

 

[Kemble]

JWG,

Are you interested in the Temple of the Vampire? There is an administrative contact, email and traditional mail, on the website for questions like this. Nothing wrong with open discussions, but not approaching it directly first shows a tenous motivation to get an accurate answer. I'm not a representative but a member and I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective on it broadly and straightforwardly, although I apologize in advance for any rambling.

I only have a slight familiarity with LttD/CoS but it seems folks fly the banner out of enthusiasm, affectation, or a propensity to share a personally useful system with others of like mind. It's a personal choice; there are no official/organizational ties with the CoS.

I don't think there really is a Satanic community, as that religion seems entirely individualistic. Relatedly I know atleast one proactive higher ranking member of the CoS who is a Freemason (an org with a theistic requirement); it doesn't seem that the CoS particularly cares to filter or censor what its members get involved with organizationally or philosophically, as long as they can set it aside or blend it successfully. I suspect that's a remnant from Lavey's nonchalance toward what others find personally satisfying. That's just a guess.

As far as how compatible Vampiric philosophy is with Satanism, I'm not a Satanist yet from the examples of mavens of both orgs it seems it can blend successfully. While the ToV encompasses, accentuates, and cultivates the carnal, it also does expand in directions slightly beyond (yet never totally detached) as a major difference.

I'm going to say the ToV literature function as a set of instructions and view points that focus on uncovering/developing useful subtle and obvious skills to propel individuals toward unique personal challenges and achievements - one side effect of that is a mature development of the ego over time: completely out of the arena of cockiness (but perhaps that is not sufficiently understood by some tyros). So there is little interest organizationally on what its members choose to join or explore. It's also not its aim to mold members' personalities into some predetermined "ideal" either. The "vampire" mythos functions on a metaphoric level for personal growth rather than as a lifestyle or aesthetic. It stresses personal experiences over orthodoxy and has been described before as an "engineering religion."

On that note, I understand how you took the website as pompous and dogmatic although it isn't with careful reading. It's trying to communicate the importance of cultivating pressing elements of daily life (finances, health, safety/survival) before one can rationally explore esoteric experiences. The elitist tone is directed toward the individual to help change perspective rather than toward "outsiders" as an attention seeking bauble.

Let me know if my post was in anyway confusing or insuffient. I tried to touch on some of the spurious and nutty criticisms being recycled around the net.

Oh, nice signature. RAW fan?

 

[Kenaz]

Kemble,

Firstly, let me thank you for taking the time to respond to my thread. It was indeed very informative and well-written. Am I interested? Yes, slightly. I've always been drawn to the Vampire mythos and attributes. As you said, it is an interesting metaphor to use to improve ones self if they feel an attachment to it. Now, being very individualistic, free-thinking, and most importantly, skeptical; I do have my hesitations and reservations so far about the organization. Like I said before, the site comes off very promising of a lot of things (wealth, power, immortality, etc) and the way it does it is very effective to draw people in. Powerful psychology at play, which I respect and admire; a very useful skill and trait to possess in one's toolbox indeed! What I do think I am picking up on is this almost being a test of sorts, emphasizing the Temple's maxim of "[SIZE=-2]Within lies fact and fancy, truth and metaphor. Discriminate with care" and again, "Test Everything.- Believe Nothing."

I have also heard a many things about the Temple's rites and lore that is within the Vampire Bible, and also have a few theories on them as well, similar to my above observation about the content of the site and a "test" of sorts for the individual to 'filter' through, you could say, in turn strengthening one's own intellect, apart from the orthodoxy and externally-induced and fed beliefs and views that society places upon us, like robotic sheep. You asked about Robert Anton Wilson, and yes, I am indeed a huge fan of his philosophy and work. A big contributor to where I am today, much less of a sheep, each day more independent and free, clear thinking.

I'd love to continue this dialogue, perhaps in private if that's more comfortable and agreeable to you. Either way, look forward to hearing back.
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[Kemble]

JWG,

I hope no one thinks there is any magic pill or cookie-cutter approach to material success: it takes persistance, calculation, and effort. Throughout my almost 5 year membership in the Temple it's always been a toolkit to help distill these subjects for easier implementation and clear direction. Glad to help.