Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
Does God need a "Blood Atonement"?
"And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house. And straightaway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, ...When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son thy sins be forgiven thee. But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blaspemies?" who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say Arise, and take up thy bed and walk?"Son of Man" hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose,took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion." But that ye many know that the Mark 2:1-12
As seen in chapter one, when Paul came with this new and innovative ideas on how to improve upon the message of Jesus (pbuh), he began by dropping specific commandments. This continued until he decided that his alleged "visions" were sufficient authority to completely discard all of the commandments which both Prophet Moses as well as prophet Jesus (pbut) both observed very strictly throughout their lives. The fact that both of these prophets are well known to have spent their lives commanding their followers to uphold these laws and commandments is casually brushed aside by "St. Paul." His visions, we are told are higher in authority than the cmmands of Jesus pbuh during his lifetime.
Once Paul was finished nullifying the law of God through Mosws and jesus and simplifying the religion for them he began to get many converts. This is because his "Christianity" only required "faith" and no actual work (Romans 3:28). But faith without work was too flimsy a concept to build one's whole way of life around. Paul needed a stupendous and monumental event to have faith IN in order for his claims to be accepted by anyone. Thus the original sin and atonement were born.
Paul claimed that God Almighty had created mankind inherently sinful and as inheritors of "the sin of Adam." He claimed that this hereditary burden was so great that the creator of all the heavens and earth, and yes, the creator of the concepts of sin and forgiveness themselves, could not forgive this sin. This, in Paul's estimation, was beyond God's capabilities. Paul preached that the only way the creator of the heavens and earth and everything in-between could forgive this sin was to have his "only begotten son" beaten, spat on, srtipped, whipped cut, hjumiliated, and finally killed in the most gruesome and drawn-out way known to man at the time; by hanging on the cross, and this becoming a curse upon mankind.
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree - Galatians 3:13
Only then would God be able to forgive this sin.
However, if we were to read the words of Jesus (pbuh) in Mark 2:9 we would find that Jesus (pbuh) informs us that for him to tell a man that his sins are forgiven is much easier that to cure a paralytic and cause him to walk, and since Jesus pbuh had the power to cure paralytics, therefore, he demonstrates to us that forgiving sins is much easier for him.
However, we already know that God Almighty the Father of the believers
"And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" - Matthew 23:9
We further know that God Almighty is greater in power than all humans including Jesus: "...my father is greater than I", - John 14:28
Finally, we know that Jesus pbuh gets his power from God: "I can of mine own self do nothing..." - John 5:30
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man appoved of God maong you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as Ye yourselfs also know:" - Acts 2:22
So it stands to reasin that what is easy for Jesus pbuh is trivial and inconsequential for God Almighty himself. Thus, if Jesus pbuh can forgive sins with the utmost ease simply by uttering the words "your sins are forgiven" then it is well within the ability of God Almighty himself to do the same simply by willing it, even without uttering a word. Indeed, we can even read in the Bible:
"Who [is] a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquitym and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of this heritage? He retaineth not his anger forever, because he delightesth [in] mercy." - Micah 7:18
Nevertheless, He (God), [being] full of compassion, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: Yea, many a time turned He his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath. For He remembered that they [were but] flesh; a wind passeth away, and cometh not again." - Paslam 78:38-39
"I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out they transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." - Isaiah 43:25
Well, how then does God Almighty forgive our sins? Is He able to simply say "you are forgiven" to those who turn to repentance or must He first sacrifice a sinless individual before He can do this? To get the answer let us read the Bible:
"It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin." - Jeremiah 36:3
"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lorn, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.' - Isaiah 55:7
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah." - Psalm 32:5
"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged..." - Proverbs 16:6
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall himbel themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will i hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." - Chronicles 7:14
"And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house. And straightaway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, ...When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son thy sins be forgiven thee. But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blaspemies?" who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say Arise, and take up thy bed and walk?"Son of Man" hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose,took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion." But that ye many know that the Mark 2:1-12
As seen in chapter one, when Paul came with this new and innovative ideas on how to improve upon the message of Jesus (pbuh), he began by dropping specific commandments. This continued until he decided that his alleged "visions" were sufficient authority to completely discard all of the commandments which both Prophet Moses as well as prophet Jesus (pbut) both observed very strictly throughout their lives. The fact that both of these prophets are well known to have spent their lives commanding their followers to uphold these laws and commandments is casually brushed aside by "St. Paul." His visions, we are told are higher in authority than the cmmands of Jesus pbuh during his lifetime.
Once Paul was finished nullifying the law of God through Mosws and jesus and simplifying the religion for them he began to get many converts. This is because his "Christianity" only required "faith" and no actual work (Romans 3:28). But faith without work was too flimsy a concept to build one's whole way of life around. Paul needed a stupendous and monumental event to have faith IN in order for his claims to be accepted by anyone. Thus the original sin and atonement were born.
Paul claimed that God Almighty had created mankind inherently sinful and as inheritors of "the sin of Adam." He claimed that this hereditary burden was so great that the creator of all the heavens and earth, and yes, the creator of the concepts of sin and forgiveness themselves, could not forgive this sin. This, in Paul's estimation, was beyond God's capabilities. Paul preached that the only way the creator of the heavens and earth and everything in-between could forgive this sin was to have his "only begotten son" beaten, spat on, srtipped, whipped cut, hjumiliated, and finally killed in the most gruesome and drawn-out way known to man at the time; by hanging on the cross, and this becoming a curse upon mankind.
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree - Galatians 3:13
Only then would God be able to forgive this sin.
However, if we were to read the words of Jesus (pbuh) in Mark 2:9 we would find that Jesus (pbuh) informs us that for him to tell a man that his sins are forgiven is much easier that to cure a paralytic and cause him to walk, and since Jesus pbuh had the power to cure paralytics, therefore, he demonstrates to us that forgiving sins is much easier for him.
However, we already know that God Almighty the Father of the believers
"And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" - Matthew 23:9
We further know that God Almighty is greater in power than all humans including Jesus: "...my father is greater than I", - John 14:28
Finally, we know that Jesus pbuh gets his power from God: "I can of mine own self do nothing..." - John 5:30
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man appoved of God maong you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as Ye yourselfs also know:" - Acts 2:22
So it stands to reasin that what is easy for Jesus pbuh is trivial and inconsequential for God Almighty himself. Thus, if Jesus pbuh can forgive sins with the utmost ease simply by uttering the words "your sins are forgiven" then it is well within the ability of God Almighty himself to do the same simply by willing it, even without uttering a word. Indeed, we can even read in the Bible:
"Who [is] a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquitym and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of this heritage? He retaineth not his anger forever, because he delightesth [in] mercy." - Micah 7:18
Nevertheless, He (God), [being] full of compassion, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: Yea, many a time turned He his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath. For He remembered that they [were but] flesh; a wind passeth away, and cometh not again." - Paslam 78:38-39
"I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out they transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." - Isaiah 43:25
Well, how then does God Almighty forgive our sins? Is He able to simply say "you are forgiven" to those who turn to repentance or must He first sacrifice a sinless individual before He can do this? To get the answer let us read the Bible:
"It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin." - Jeremiah 36:3
"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lorn, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.' - Isaiah 55:7
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah." - Psalm 32:5
"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged..." - Proverbs 16:6
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall himbel themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will i hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." - Chronicles 7:14