There is a new law. The law we are no longer obligated to obey is the Mosiac Law specifically. There is a law and we do have a responsibility to live it. Grace means we are saved after all we can do. If we do not DO as the law says we let sin abound and we fall under condemnation. If we do all that we can and run that race (as Paul compares life to) we have grace to cover what we cannot.Hope said:Christians are under a new covenant, not under the Law. We are under grace. Not that we should sin all the time---absolutely not---but the letter of the law no longer controls us. It is Christ's Spirit within us that guides us, if we allow Him to, and He helps us not to sin. Absolutely Jesus said not to sin---He even commanded us to be perfect, as He is perfect! Whoa! Who among us can accomplish that? The only way we can not sin, and even attempt to be 'perfect' is not through our own efforts, but by allowing Him to do it through us. He did not command us to never sin or be perfect thinking we could actually do that on our own! He knew we wouldn't be able to, and that's why there's grace, and a new covenant. If we managed to never sin through our own efforts, then we would become puffed up with pride. It's only by realizing we can never achieve God's standards on our own, that we can come to Him humbly, and ask Him to do it in us. And He will....
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Christmas & Santa are agents of evil sent by Satan the Devil
- Thread starter t3gah
- Start date
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Well, I couldn't disagree more! they are pretty strightforward, until we don't want to follow them. THEN they become a quagmire! In fact you could sum up the entire Bible in two or three sentences.
Isis-Astoroth
Member
I can sum up the bible in three words....confusing, contradictory, outdated
(all my opinion of course....)
(all my opinion of course....)
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
As for Christmas and Santa being of the devil... hogwash!!!
Why is it that some so-called Christians spend 363 days a year trying to get people to think about Jesus and two trying to get them to stop? It don't make sense. They need to read what Paul had to say about this:
Philippians 1:15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, NIC
So while I don't believe that Christmas or Easter are "holy days", it excites me to no end that the ENTIRE WORLD is stopping twice each year to think about the son of God. I with Paul on this... it's time to rejoice that Christ is preached!
Why is it that some so-called Christians spend 363 days a year trying to get people to think about Jesus and two trying to get them to stop? It don't make sense. They need to read what Paul had to say about this:
Philippians 1:15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, NIC
So while I don't believe that Christmas or Easter are "holy days", it excites me to no end that the ENTIRE WORLD is stopping twice each year to think about the son of God. I with Paul on this... it's time to rejoice that Christ is preached!
Another Verse ajudged wrong by a Christian, OH MY! Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.Hope said:Christians are under a new covenant, not under the Law. We are under grace. Not that we should sin all the time---absolutely not---but the letter of the law no longer controls us. It is Christ's Spirit within us that guides us, if we allow Him to, and He helps us not to sin. Absolutely Jesus said not to sin---He even commanded us to be perfect, as He is perfect! Whoa! Who among us can accomplish that? The only way we can not sin, and even attempt to be 'perfect' is not through our own efforts, but by allowing Him to do it through us. He did not command us to never sin or be perfect thinking we could actually do that on our own! He knew we wouldn't be able to, and that's why there's grace, and a new covenant. If we managed to never sin through our own efforts, then we would become puffed up with pride. It's only by realizing we can never achieve God's standards on our own, that we can come to Him humbly, and ask Him to do it in us. And He will....
Hope
Princesinha
Amen & amen, NetDoc! Well-said!:jam:
Ronald, what religion are you a part of?
"Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also.....Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." ~Romans 3:19-31
Paul says it much, much better than I ever could!
Ronald, what religion are you a part of?
"Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also.....Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." ~Romans 3:19-31
Paul says it much, much better than I ever could!
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Well, t3gah... now we know why you are all puffed up!
But what wrong doctrine is being promulgated here (other than yours, which is obvious).
But what wrong doctrine is being promulgated here (other than yours, which is obvious).
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
*sighs* NetDoc, you're really taxing my frubal purse on these posts, you know that, don't you?NetDoc said:
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Sorry, it's hard for me to stay quiet when I see this type of thought process.
linwood
Well-Known Member
I`m speaking in literal terms Doc.NetDoc said:
The book was written by 40+ different authors over a span of centuries years.
The authors of the NT had a serious agenda which riddles their writing
Some copying from their predecessors.
Scores of scribes have brought us the pages of this book through centuries of copying.
As far as we know the originals no longer even exist to show what was truly written not to mention those who chose which scripture would and would not become the final product did so with their own political bias the forefront of their concerns.
The contradictions within the book show that the writers of later scripture either weren`t aware of the earlier writings or disregarded them.
I don`t see how any message can be taken through a literal reading of the entire book.
Metaphorically..thats a different story.
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
I've read 22 pages of posts, trying to catch up, and I'll say this - you let me know when you see a thought process forming in any of that frothy mess. I honestly don't even know what he is on about.NetDoc said:
TVOR
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Most of the contradictions aren't. In fact most of those proferred are intellectually dishonest when you get right down to it.
I don't know that the Bible ever claims to be without error. That's the cool part. If you look at every single man that God has ever used, you see that they are full of sin. David committed adultery and then murder to cover it up. Peter cursed like a sailor (he was one) and even rejected Jesus in his hour of need. Paul helped others to stone Stephen. The list goes on...
But God uses what is faulty, what is ignoble and frail. To prove that the glory truly belongs to him and to him alone. God has even found a use for me from time to time... talk about using old broken stuff!
So while many fall prey to condemning it for it's diversity of origin, and for the many mysteries it holds, I on the other hand see God's finger prints on every page and every verse. That in spite of mega odds and using the roughest of tools, God has crafted something that can make you wise, even to salvation. It gives me goose bumps.
I don't know that the Bible ever claims to be without error. That's the cool part. If you look at every single man that God has ever used, you see that they are full of sin. David committed adultery and then murder to cover it up. Peter cursed like a sailor (he was one) and even rejected Jesus in his hour of need. Paul helped others to stone Stephen. The list goes on...
But God uses what is faulty, what is ignoble and frail. To prove that the glory truly belongs to him and to him alone. God has even found a use for me from time to time... talk about using old broken stuff!
So while many fall prey to condemning it for it's diversity of origin, and for the many mysteries it holds, I on the other hand see God's finger prints on every page and every verse. That in spite of mega odds and using the roughest of tools, God has crafted something that can make you wise, even to salvation. It gives me goose bumps.
t3gah
Well-Known Member
How Jesus (Yeshua) Christ Should be RememberedNetDoc said:
(http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6920)
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
Once again, someone has been reading my thoughts. (Not only that, but isn't too chicken to voice them, unlike me.)The Voice of Reason said:
I was struggling with this a long time ago, and the topic once again rears its boring head: at what point do you simply no longer reply to a person?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's good to keep track of your frustration level.
Everything we come in contact with can frustrate us or please us.
It's not always possible to avoid the former and not always wise to persue the latter adnauseum.
There are already a few people who have reached their frustration level with me. For whatever reason, they see me as having my mind made up since I cannot accept their "points" that they see as irrefutable. It might also have to do with a mild case of jealousy if they happened across that fisheye picture of me, or the one where I am wearing a Flamingo hat.
But in reality, thats cool. They have had their fill of me and have found it good to move on.
It's better than saying things you really didn't want to say, or feeling things you really don't want to feel.
Everything we come in contact with can frustrate us or please us.
It's not always possible to avoid the former and not always wise to persue the latter adnauseum.
There are already a few people who have reached their frustration level with me. For whatever reason, they see me as having my mind made up since I cannot accept their "points" that they see as irrefutable. It might also have to do with a mild case of jealousy if they happened across that fisheye picture of me, or the one where I am wearing a Flamingo hat.
But in reality, thats cool. They have had their fill of me and have found it good to move on.
It's better than saying things you really didn't want to say, or feeling things you really don't want to feel.
That seems hard to believe. I find you to be rather refreshing.NetDoc said:
Oh, now I understand.NetDoc said:
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
I believe that is one aspect of "maturity".NetDoc said:
By the way, I thought that was an "Urban Sombrero" - either way - it looks good on you. :sarcastic
TVOR
t3gah
Well-Known Member
Pagans who the world perceived were Christians created this whole "Christ Mass" (Christmas) under a cloak of darkness, doom and death. Join us or die!Circle_One said:
Once these quote "Christians" of the past threatened or killed anyone they ceased being Christian is any way since the Christ reiterated not murder or hold wrath against a brother.
No matter what anyone says today, this 'celebration' (Christ Mass or Christmas) is still a pagan celebration under the umbrella of the fake Christians worldwide.
There is a scripture that says not to judge you with regard to your religious celebrations. That scripture was made in reference to real Christian celebrations and not pagan celebrations pawned off by false prophets who claimed to be Christian.
A pagan celebration is still a pagan celebration any way to slice it. Christians celebrating them are in error and guilty of interfaith.
Continuation of this false Christian holiday only perpetuates the lie of those who claim they are Christians but are only a synagogue of Satan.
In God's eyes, Christmas and Christ Mass are pagan celebrations. Those who think I'm being harsh... well, check out these scriptures:
[size=-1]Mark 7:9[/size]
[size=-1]He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.[/size]
[size=-1]Ephesians 4:17[/size]
[size=-1]This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, [/size]
[size=-1]2 Kings 17:34[/size]
[size=-1]To this day they do after the former manner: they don't fear Yahweh, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law or after the commandment which Yahweh commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel; [/size]
[size=-1]James 4:4[/size]
[size=-1]You adulterers and adulteresses, don't you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. [/size]
[size=-1]1 Peter 5:14[/size]
[size=-1]Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace be to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen. [/size]
[size=-1]He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.[/size]
[size=-1]Ephesians 4:17[/size]
[size=-1]This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, [/size]
[size=-1]2 Kings 17:34[/size]
[size=-1]To this day they do after the former manner: they don't fear Yahweh, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law or after the commandment which Yahweh commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel; [/size]
[size=-1]James 4:4[/size]
[size=-1]You adulterers and adulteresses, don't you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. [/size]
[size=-1]1 Peter 5:14[/size]
[size=-1]Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace be to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen. [/size]
Now wait a second. By that logic...I'm sure that you have sinned. Therefore, you must no longer be Christian. You're making some rather powerful statements.t3gah said:
Continuation of this false Christian holiday only perpetuates the lie of those who claim they are Christians but are only a synagogue of Satan.
t3gah said:
Indeed. Let's check out those scriptures. Let's look at them in context:
[size=-1]Mark 7:9: The Pharisees are complaining that Jesus' disciples are not obeying their rules about washing their hands before eating. Jesus replies that that rule was made by men, not God. Jesus then goes on to point out that these same Pharisees break God's law where God said "honor your father and mother." The first thing to note is that the "man's law" that Jesus is criticizing is a prohibition. There is no prohibition with Christmas. There's no requirement to observe it. It's just what people do. I don't see that as in contradiction to this passage. I would also note that Jesus goes on to say that the real problem is that while following their own, man-made rules, the Pharisees also neglect God's rules. I fail to see compelling evidence in this passage that suggests that following man-made rules or traditions by an act of conscience while still following all of God's rules is a no-no.[/size]
[size=-1]Ephesians 4:17: This verse, in context, talks about Gentiles hardening their hearts and giving themselves over to greed and needless sensuality. Again, I don't see why this necessarily has to do with Christmas. I suppose one could take a greedy approach to the gift-giving, but I'm unconvinced it's necessary.[/size]
[size=-1][/size]
[size=-1]2 Kings 17:34: This passage has to do with people serving and honoring other gods. You have yet to demonstrate that a Christian celebrating Christmas is doing this.[/size]
[size=-1][/size]
[size=-1]James 4:4: Again, this passage has to do with greed and the things caused by greed. It has little bearing an Christmas as observed by most devout Christians I know.[/size]
I'm sorry, but your verses don't pass the "context test." Nothing you have said specifically says "thou shalt not celebrate Christmas or any other holiday that coincides with a nonChristian holiday." It only says that if you completely ignore the greater message and context of the passages your verse comes in. Also, standing on your head and closing one eye may be necessary to get the interpretation you're trying to force these passages into.