Christians: Will the Christian Church go through the Tribulation?

[sooda]

Once the Rapture occurs, there is no hindrance to the Mystery of Iniquity that has proceeded down through the ages. The Church is no longer there to restrain and the Holy Spirit no longer attempts to restrain.

Of this 'Rapture' many say it is not mentioned in the Bible. But it is. (1 Thess. 4:17) "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...." The words 'caught up' are from he Greek 'arpadzo'. This was translated in Latin in the Vulgate as 'rapturo'. Hence our word 'rapture'. Raptured or caught up.

So Paul explains the Rapture in (1 Thess. 4:13-18) There was apparently some concern among the Thessalonian believers about the Christians who had already died, that they would not experience the glorious meeting that would occur when Christ returns for the Church. Paul wants to assure them that that is not so.

The 'dead in Christ' shall partake of that Rapture, just as we, who are in Christ, and alive, will. Just because the believer dies, does not mean he will not experience the Rapture.

(1 Thess. 4:13-14) "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them who are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them who sleepin Jesus will God bring with Him."

Those Christians who have died aree already with the Lord in a spiritual body. Their spirit. At the Rapture these will first have their bodies resurrected and united with them.

(1 Thess. 4:15-16) "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them who are asleep...and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

Then the living Christians join the resurrected Christians in being caught up together to Christ.

(1 Thess. 4:17) "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...."

Paul will later explain this further in (1 Cor. 15:52-53) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The world wishes the Church was gone. It has tried to destroy it, dilute it, and hinder it anyway it can. One day it will be gone. But what then? Evil is turned loose to have it's day.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Thessalonians is reassurances that those who died previously will spirituallly be redeemed.

Its all there ..plain as the nose on your face. The Roman garrisons under Titus plus the Syrians, Egyptians and Arab garrisons he commanded with their flags and standards trampled Jerusalem for 42 months.. These were "all nations" of the Roman Empire that came against Israel.

 

[sojourner]

Question:
Christians: Will the Christian Church go through the Tribulation?

Answer: No.

 

[sojourner]

Once the Rapture occurs, there is no hindrance to the Mystery of Iniquity that has proceeded down through the ages. The Church is no longer there to restrain and the Holy Spirit no longer attempts to restrain.

Of this 'Rapture' many say it is not mentioned in the Bible. But it is. (1 Thess. 4:17) "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...." The words 'caught up' are from he Greek 'arpadzo'. This was translated in Latin in the Vulgate as 'rapturo'. Hence our word 'rapture'. Raptured or caught up.

So Paul explains the Rapture in (1 Thess. 4:13-18) There was apparently some concern among the Thessalonian believers about the Christians who had already died, that they would not experience the glorious meeting that would occur when Christ returns for the Church. Paul wants to assure them that that is not so.

The 'dead in Christ' shall partake of that Rapture, just as we, who are in Christ, and alive, will. Just because the believer dies, does not mean he will not experience the Rapture.

(1 Thess. 4:13-14) "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them who are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them who sleepin Jesus will God bring with Him."

Those Christians who have died aree already with the Lord in a spiritual body. Their spirit. At the Rapture these will first have their bodies resurrected and united with them.

(1 Thess. 4:15-16) "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them who are asleep...and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

Then the living Christians join the resurrected Christians in being caught up together to Christ.

(1 Thess. 4:17) "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...."

Paul will later explain this further in (1 Cor. 15:52-53) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The world wishes the Church was gone. It has tried to destroy it, dilute it, and hinder it anyway it can. One day it will be gone. But what then? Evil is turned loose to have it's day.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Yikes! What a terrible understanding and what terrible theology.

 

[sooda]

What made the Roman emperor the anti-christ? When did he make a covenant with the Jews and allowed them to rebuild the temple? (Dan. 9:27) When did the Jews receive him as the messiah? When did he set up the abomination of desolation?

What makes you think that Revelation is not a book of prophecy. (Rev. 1:3)

Scripture says the Tribulation will be for 7 years. (Dan. 9:27) When did it start as it is then the anti-christ is revealed.

Why do you not answer my question concerning the Rapture? You described the Rapture in post #(13). So you must believe the Rapture....correct?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Antiochus IV set up the Abomination of Desolation. That's why the Jews celebrate Hanukkah to remember the rededication of the Temple. Jesus knew about that.. and said when the Temple was defiled again, they should flee to the mountains.

Titus was the prince of the people to come.. His troops destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem.

 

[GardenLady]

An alternative view, widely held among biblical scholars, is that Revelation is about the early church and the Roman Empire. This "end times" prophesy view of Revelation is a fairly new concoction.

 

[Brickjectivity]

An alternative view, widely held among biblical scholars, is that Revelation is about the early church and the Roman Empire. This "end times" prophesy view of Revelation is a fairly new concoction.

It is a very common one though. You can't really be surprised. I never learned all the details, but this way of viewing revelation and the rapture was assumed to be a fact during my formative years. Its in Chick tracts. Its in school systems such as ACE. Its in ministry kits, teaching tools, some seminaries. Its actually assumed in most books you'd find in a modern Christian bookstore here in the USA or at your local Walmart.

I agree that it not the case, but I don't expect people to listen to me about it. Its one of those things where a fish would be turning around directly against all the rest of its school. Its embedded all over the place.

 

[Tazarah]

MATTHEW 24:29-31

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

ISAIAH 45:4

"4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

 

[Brickjectivity]

MATTHEW 24:29-31

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

ISAIAH 45:4

"4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Rev 1:1 "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...."

So...in your dictionary what is the definition of 'Soon'? 2000, 3000, 4000 years? It wouldn't be a big deal except that you're claiming to have a systematic interpretation of this text, and you're ignoring verse #1.

 

[Tazarah]

Rev 1:1 "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...."

So...in your dictionary what is the definition of 'Soon'? 2000, 3000, 4000 years? It wouldn't be a big deal except that you're claiming to have a systematic interpretation of this text, and you're ignoring verse #1.

2 PETER 3:8

"8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

 

[Brickjectivity]

2 PETER 3:8

"8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

"But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have." (I Corinthians 4:19)

Looks like soon is not supposed to mean "Not soon at all, more like thousands of years from now," and is intended to have meaning rather than to be meaningless. Its I Corinthians, not the same book as Revelation but then neither is 2 Peter.

 

[Tazarah]

"But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have." (I Corinthians 4:19)

Looks like soon is not supposed to mean "Not soon at all, more like thousands of years from now," and is intended to have meaning rather than to be meaningless. Its I Corinthians, not the same book as Revelation but then neither is 2 Peter.

1 Corinthians 4:19 is not speaking about Christ's second coming.

 

[Brickjectivity]

1 Corinthians 4:19 is not speaking about Christ's second coming.

I note that Revelation opens talking about seven churches all of which exist at the time of its writing but which do not all exist, today. Soon for them actually means soon, unless these are not truly just individual churches and unless they refer to all churches at all times. Is that how you interpret them? I could understand that, but I think that is not how you interpret them. The warning to the church of Ephesus goes like "Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place." (Rev 2:5). Similar warnings are given to the other six churches, and it seems stretching it to say that those lamp stands would be removed thousands of years in the future (not soon) versus soon which the book actually says. If 'Soon' in chapter 1 means thousands of years then these warnings to these active communities must ring hollow. They are not at all warned that something will happen to them soon?

"I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me." (2Pe 1:13-14) Here is 2nd Peter using the word 'Soon'. In 2 Peter it means 'Soon'. I don't see a pattern of Christians using this term to mean "A long time from now perhaps."

While I do understand 2 Peter's comment about thousands of years, I would be wary of any system of interpretation which relies upon the word 'Soon' meaning its opposite. 2 Peter is alluding to Psalms and the wax and wane of nations -- cyclically. They're like grass. If this is the meaning of 'Soon' in Revelation then its not about a timetable at all but about a cycle, as if one were going around Jericho. Its that kind of cycle where you just keep on going and don't have a timetable and never give up.

All of Revelation is symbolic and has visions and could be one long vision. It heavily uses the term 'Seven' and urges saints to be patient, interminably. It just doesn't seem to have a time table or a finish mark. If I look at it apocalyptically as something which describes the timeless ebb and flow of the enemies breaking like waves upon the church then I guess it makes sense to think of soon as...maybe something different; but other than that it doesn't seem to make sense to reverse its meaning.