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Christians: Will the Christian Church go through the Tribulation?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by YeshuaRedeemed, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. YeshuaRedeemed

    YeshuaRedeemed Revelation 3:10

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    What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?
    Question: "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"
    Answer: The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.
    The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.
    The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
    1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
    2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
    3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
    4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
    5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
    Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
    1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
    2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
    3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
    The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
    What is the rapture of the church?


     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Throw out everything you have written .. Thessalonians is specific .. to comfort and support congregants in Thessalonica. The tribulation was OVER in 70 AD.

    The rapture is a con game …. invented for profit about 1830.
     
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  3. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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  5. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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    Preterism
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    It helps to study and understand the fundamentals and Thessalonians
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    My thought:
    A Christian has to flavor the world and dissolve into it like salt. That is no easy life. That is self denial, and its being dead to sin and alive in Christ. That is at least a kind of tribulation is it not? It happens over and over not just seven but seventy times seven. That is I think what Revelation is talking about with all of its references to seven -- as many cycles as are needed. Even though yes there was tribulation in 70AD that wasn't the end, but also there is no real last tribulation until everything is accomplished, and the claim that Jesus is messiah rests in the expectation that all will be accomplished. When is everything is finished, then comes the last trump just like when Joshua is told 'Today you make your last cycle and blow the trumpet'.

    Trouble is cyclical, and we are supposed to be walking around our Jericho however many times it takes. That's the job. We don't get to know when is the end of the cycles. When there's peace in the world. When the arrogant choose humility. When so much treasure is stored that it rains down. When everybody cannot help but admit that Jesus has done it, that's when.
     
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  8. Jesuslightoftheworld

    Jesuslightoftheworld The world has nothing to offer us!

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    I have done a lot of studies on Revelations and I still can’t discern whether Jesus will come at the beginning of the Tribulation, half way through when the anti-Christ turns, or the end.
     
  9. Jesuslightoftheworld

    Jesuslightoftheworld The world has nothing to offer us!

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    Thank you for that, it makes sense and it has never been explained to me that way.
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
    www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm
    D. Rapture doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830: 4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided.
     
  11. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The Church will not go through the Tribulation but will instead be raptured out.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  12. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Are you concerned over the timing of the Rapture or the Second Coming in relation to the Tribulation.

    If the purpose of the Tribulation does not concern the Church, there is no reason for the Church to go through any part of the Tribulation. Remember, 'Time of Jacobs Trouble'. (Jer. 30:7)

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The tribulation was over in 70 AD. The "rapture" is a misunderstanding found in Thessalonians.

    The Thessalonian Christians were concerned about the fate of those saints who had fallen asleep (died). They needed comforting and teaching about events at the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection. You see, the truth is, the catching away of the living saints is only a small part of the greater resurrection.

    Paul's teaching on the resurrection in I Thessalonians and I Corinthians is rich instruction for the church: Behold, I tell you a mystery We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (I Cor. 15:51,52) It is interesting to note that dead are raised, but the living are changed. According to the Thessalonian passage, this change takes place spiritually, i.e., in the 'air.'
     
  14. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    If the Tribulation was over in 70 A.D., when did it start?

    So, you believe in the Rapture?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The "rapture" as you were taught was invented in 1830 by Darby and the Plymouth Brethern and promoted by Cyrus Scofield in an effort to promote Christian Zionism.

    In reality Thessalonians its the reassurance that the already dead will not be excluded when Jesus returns.

    The tribulation was local.. Jesus told them (referencing the time of the persecutions under Antiochus IV Epiphanes) that the people should flee to the mountains.. and they did.. They fled to Pella in Jordan.
     
  16. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I know....I've heard you constantly repeat that. Sort of like 'spam'.

    When did the Tribulation start?

    According to you, you do believe in the Rapture...correct?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Its started 42 months earlier and was over during the grape harvest (August) 70 AD.

    Remember? The Gentile (Romans) trampled Jerusalem with the flags and standards.

    All the nations came against Israel.. all the nearby countries that were part of the Roman Empire provided troops who fought with the Roman garrisons commanded by Vespasian and then Titus. Arabs, Egyptians and Syrians also fought in Israel.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    That is only 3 1/2 years. The Tribulation lasts 7 years.

    Who was the anti-christ, as he must be revealed?

    In 70 A.D. it was not all nations, it was the Roman empire. And, the Tribulation will involve both Israel and the world. (Rev. 3:10)

    I asked you a question. Do I understand you correctly that you do believe the Rapture as you indicated in post #(13)?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Roman emperor was the antichrist.

    Revelation wasn't written for 2000 years in the future.. It was written to the people of the first century who understood the symbolism perfectly.

    The Tribulation Period is divided into three eras, the first era being approximately three and a half years; the brief middle period being perhaps only a few weeks; and the last era, called the Great Tribulation, being approximately three and a half years.
     
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  20. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    What made the Roman emperor the anti-christ? When did he make a covenant with the Jews and allowed them to rebuild the temple? (Dan. 9:27) When did the Jews receive him as the messiah? When did he set up the abomination of desolation?

    What makes you think that Revelation is not a book of prophecy. (Rev. 1:3)

    Scripture says the Tribulation will be for 7 years. (Dan. 9:27) When did it start as it is then the anti-christ is revealed.

    Why do you not answer my question concerning the Rapture? You described the Rapture in post #(13). So you must believe the Rapture....correct?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
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