Christians, Why Jehovah?

[Rek Law]

Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Scriptures ... those Scriptures being what we have as the Old Testament; thus God the Father can only be the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.

If Christianity replaced Judaism instead of fulfilling it then we would only have the Gospels and Epistles and would lose so much insight into the nature of God.

God cannot be anyone else and we know that whether we spell the name YHWH or YHVH is immaterial, for even that isn't the true name of God because it means "I AM THAT I AM" ... which, it seems is all we need to know - for the time being.

\coming back to the original question of why do Christians have to (or choose to) accept the Jewish God ... why? Because that is WHO GOD IS, of course! Simple, huh?

Why overcomplicate with imposed convolutions what God has made smooth and straight? So much else is difficult as it is!

 

[Halcyon]

Because He commanded us not to have any God's before him. .

Well, he would wouldn't he. Could you really expect him to say anything else?

If you're writing a book about the God that you believe in, you're not going to include anything that suggests that He is not the true God, are you?

Christianity, IMO, is not a new religion, but a direct extension of Judaism. We even refer to the OT as teh lower law and the NT as the higher law. They are two sides of the same coin, so there is really no reason why we would worship Baal or Thor.

Well, we're all entitled to our individual opinions. What i'd like to know though, outside of scriptural or doctrinal sources - what is there to suggest that Jesus was the son of Jehovah?

 

[nutshell]

Well, he would wouldn't he. Could you really expect him to say anything else?

If you're writing a book about the God that you believe in, you're not going to include anything that suggests that He is not the true God, are you?


Well, we're all entitled to our individual opinions. What i'd like to know though, outside of scriptural or doctrinal sources - what is there to suggest that Jesus was the son of Jehovah?

God teaches us two ways: Through the written word and through the voice of the prophets. The Spirit than confirms to our spirit that these things are true. As simple as that for us, but I suspect not for you.

 

[Halcyon]

Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Scriptures ...

Gimme a quote to work with.

If Christianity replaced Judaism instead of fulfilling it then we would only have the Gospels and Epistles and would lose so much insight into the nature of God.

You'd lose insight into the nature of the Jewish God sure, but you'd still have all the information on the God of Jesus, which as a Christian should be all you need.

coming back to the original question of why do Christians have to (or choose to) accept the Jewish God ... why? Because that is WHO GOD IS, of course! Simple, huh?

Why overcomplicate with imposed convolutions what God has made smooth and straight? So much else is difficult as it is!

If it was simple, there would be no debate.

God teaches us two ways: Through the written word and through the voice of the prophets. The Spirit than confirms to our spirit that these things are true. As simple as that for us, but I suspect not for you.

The spirit confirms that it is true. The same spirit that confirms the truth for Muslims, and Wiccans and Hindus?

Have you glimpsed the mind of God nutshell?

 

[nutshell]

The spirit confirms that it is true. The same spirit that confirms the truth for Muslims, and Wiccans and Hindus?

Have you glimpsed the mind of God nutshell?

Truth can be found just about anywhere, and I know God's mind. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's why we have different beliefs. It comes down to faith and there is no reason why yours is any less or more valid than mine. In the end, we all must choose our own paths.

 

[nutshell]

May I ask, Halcyon, what God you worship?

 

[Halcyon]

Truth can be found just about anywhere, and I know God's mind. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's why we have different beliefs. It comes down to faith and there is no reason why yours is any less or more valid than mine. In the end, we all must choose our own paths.

I agree entirely. I just think its important to know the difference between finding your own path, and following someone elses lead.

May I ask, Halcyon, what God you worship?

Worship? I don't worship.

I believe in The One, as Jesus and other Gnostics have explained it.

Here's an old thread that explains it; http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/16265-halcyons-god.html?highlight=halcyon%27s

 

[Nehustan]

Well, we're all entitled to our individual opinions. What i'd like to know though, outside of scriptural or doctrinal sources - what is there to suggest that Jesus was the son of Jehovah?

I would say that the relationship between IHVH, IHShVH, and RVCh ELHM is relatively clear, and in this we do indeed have a form of trinity. I think that here we have much opportunity as english speakers, and as people receiving the ministry of Jeheshuah from secondary sources rather than with our own ears we must try and decipher exactly what was said, and how the doctrine that the followers of Jeheshuah now follow has come down to them, epitimised by the Nicean Creed which is held even by christians who have 'reformed'. I would put that Jeheshuah almost certainly never said he was the son of Eloah, did he say that he was IHVH, that IHVH was the father of Adam, that Adam was formed 'male and female' in the image of IHVH, I imagine he did say just that, but for us to understand what he was actually trying to teach us of our origins, this will take much debate and uncovering of things that have long been hidden. As Bob Marley said....

'Men and people will fight you down, when you see Jah light. Let me tell if you are not wrong everything is all right.'​

I think Rek Law has made a valid point which I aslo tried to make i.e. the voice to Moses that declared 'Eheieh Asher Eheieh/I am that I am' which then told Moses to tell the Tribes was the Name (HaShem) 'I am'. As I stated the use of this phrase by Jeheshuah angered people during the ministry of Jesus, particulalry the priests who understood exactly the egalitarian message Jesus was attempting to impart to the people, striking at the very basis of the hierarchy/hegemony of the time.

I think I will post my favourite christian gif which gives the key to the relationship between IHVH and IHShVH and why the spirit is held in such high position in what has come to be known as 'Christianity'.

Ruach Elohim
= 300 =

 

[Halcyon]

I think I will post my favourite christian gif which gives the key to the relationship between IHVH and IHShVH and why the spirit is held in such high position in what has come to be known as 'Christianity'.

Ruach Elohim
= 300 =

That's quite a complicated looking diagram. You mind deciphering it for us?

I also have a representation of how Jesus relates to the Father and how the Father relates to everything, its not as complex though - it looks like this -> 1

 

[Nehustan]

I can try, tho' like they say a picture paints a thousand words. The four 'closest' letters are the Hebrew letters for IHVH, the fifth as it were at a vanishing point, is Shin (Sh). Thus the name is Jeheshuah, the letter shin seen to be representative (in that as with algebra both the phrase and the letter = 300) of RVCh ELHM (The spirit of Eloah), seen symbolically as the dove. Thus the diagram represents the name Jeheshuah as unifying man (Adam/second Adam) through the spirit with Eloah. Given that Eloah/Ain Soph Aur is the infinite and absolute beyond the creation, one might swap Sh for ∞ at the vanishing point.

 

[SoyLeche]

what is there to suggest that Jesus was the son of Jehovah?

You may want to understand that for the LDS people, Jesus isn't the son of Jehovah. He is Jehovah.

 

[Halcyon]

You may want to understand that for the LDS people, Jesus isn't the son of Jehovah. He is Jehovah.

I thought Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the Son and the Holy Spirit is some other random dude?

 

[dawny0826]

You may want to understand that for the LDS people, Jesus isn't the son of Jehovah. He is Jehovah.

Out of curiosity, SoyLeche, do LDS consider Jehovah the name for Jesus and not God? I was under the impression that the LDS did not accept the Trinity. Jehovah is the name for God.

 

[dawny0826]

I thought Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the Son and the Holy Spirit is some other random dude?

Sorry...I now realize that you asked basically the same question.

 

[Ody]

You can accept that Jesus is the son of god, but why must you also accept that his father is the Jewish God?

The jewish G-d is the G-d of all. I find the aspect that G-d is only for jews to be a little uneducated about judaism.

 

[nutshell]

Out of curiosity, SoyLeche, do LDS consider Jehovah the name for Jesus and not God? I was under the impression that the LDS did not accept the Trinity. Jehovah is the name for God.

LDS consider Jehovah the name of God of the OT who came to earth as Jesus Christ and saved us from our sins. God the Father has a different name. God the Father and Jehovah are not the same being.

 

[SoyLeche]

LDS consider Jehovah the name of God of the OT who came to earth as Jesus Christ and saved us from our sins. God the Father has a different name. God the Father and Jehovah are not the same being.

http://www.lds.org/languages/LivingChrist/LivingChristEnglish.pdf
This describes Christ pretty well from an LDS perspective.

 

[SoyLeche]

Out of curiosity, SoyLeche, do LDS consider Jehovah the name for Jesus and not God? I was under the impression that the LDS did not accept the Trinity. Jehovah is the name for God.

We don't accept the Trinity - but Jehovah is Jesus. God the Father has "delegated" the authority over this world to his Son Jehovah.

 

[dawny0826]

We don't accept the Trinity - but Jehovah is Jesus. God the Father has "delegated" the authority over this world to his Son Jehovah.

Thank you for clarifying. I learned something new.

In my faith, Jehovah is God and I also believe that Christ has been given authority over the world.

 

[Halcyon]

The jewish G-d is the G-d of all. I find the aspect that G-d is only for jews to be a little uneducated about judaism.

I understand that Jews believe their God is the God of all, i'm not debateing that.

The way i see it, ancient peoples all believed that their God was the one and only God (or group of Gods) of all. The Jews claim is not unique, and is totally to be expected. Do you think that the followers of Baal would have worshipped Baal had they not believed him to be the true God?

What i'm saying is, if a man came along claiming to be the son of God, and you believed in say Thor - you would assume him to be the son of Thor would you not?

For example, I've heard that Hindus believe Jesus may have been an incarnation (i think the word is Avatar) of Krishna. So they acccept that the man was special, even divine, without needing to switch Gods to the Jewish deity.

My question is simply, why did the early Gentiles switch, and why to modern Gentiles keep to that decision?