Christians: Why doesn't Satan repent?

[godnotgod]

Well just going by the implications of the thread title, I figure we can for the sake of this discussion assume that God and Satan both are real.

You figure incorrectly. All we can "figure" is that there are those who think that a bloodthirsty fiend who has never been seen is stalking mankind day and night with the express and singular purpose in mind to snare his soul. It is more probable that such a malicious evil entity actually does NOT exist, and that he is nothing more than the collective fear and paranoia of the masses who base such superstitious nonsense on their ignorance. When I refer to this 'Satan', I am only referring to the idea of him; not to an actual entity.

Likewise, the belief that a creator-God is responsible for the existence of the world is unfounded. Such an idea is based wholly upon man's own conceptions, projected outward on an imagined entity.

Frankly that is what I believe and the perspective my responses are based on. As far why I chose to believe that or how I came to that decision I don't think bears on the discussion. If you need that info however I am not opposed to giving it, but it's the same as most people who believe sincerely in God.

Why you believe what you do is far more important than what you believe. It bears totally on the discussion because it is the steering mechanism behind all of your views.

You still have not provided this information. Perhaps you yourself do not understand what motivates you.

You are attempting to explain the existence of Satan in terms of your belief in some imaginary supernatural phenomena; I am explaining him in terms of man's own mind, simply because that is where the idea of Satan dwells.

Which is more realistic?

Applying force to anything creates conflict in some form or fashion. Thats just physics.

It's not just physics; it's sheer stupidity!

I follow your reasoning here. But it is important to remember that you are talking about 'Christians" and not Christianity. You do yourself a major disservice to judge Christianity by the actions of the "christians".

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians follow the teachings of something other than Christianity? You are giving yourself away here. Christianity is just so much window dressing which allows Christians to do as they please. After all, "We're not perfect; we're just forgiven" kind of crap. "Forgiven", but just as ignorant as they were to begin with.

No, in regards to my somewhat inappropriate "gobbldy-gook" comment. That was more a reflex response that I admittedly use prematurely at times. Usually when i find myself out matched intellectually or when a responder resorts to quoting other people opinions and research instead of responding from their heart. I don't have a blanket prejudice against humanism and intellect. But from my perspective, life experience, and my spiritual beliefs, I know that those are the 2 most powerful tools of Satan. They instill and propagate pride in mankind. Humanism at it's core is anti God and intellectualism is the food of humanists.

I am afraid your comments reveal a personal problem with your own thinking. You simply do not understand what you are actually saying, most of which is unfounded. You want to pass judgment on other views based upon your beliefs, rather than on what is true. I cannot even call your beliefs spiritually based. They are based more on religious dogmas, which, for the most part, are fear-driven superstitions, cloaked in magic and awe. Your mind has been captured.

What you fail to understand is that it is not a question of the intellect VS. the heart, but of a singular view which encompasses both in harmony with each other. "Be thou wise as serpents and harmless as doves", or, as the Buddhists put it: "Though my heart is on fire, my eyes are as cold as ashes". When you resolve the inner conflict that is reflected in your comments, you will see that the intellect is not in conflict with the divine essence. They are not separate, but compliment each other. The divine essence is the Supreme Intelligence itself.

If you truly were in harmony with the spiritual life, you would know that there is no real conflict between an enlightened human view and the divine view. You seem to want to pit one against the other, and the only reason I can see for that is to put oneself on the "side" of God so that you can feel superior, as a means of making up for some deep, inner insecurity. For the most part, that insecurity takes its form as metaphysical anxiety. Religion has a way of soothing the mind as a means of assuaging such anxiety.

When you get around to liberating your mind, please do return so we can have a discussion, rather than a review of what your beliefs are.

Belief clings.

Faith lets go.

PS: If anything instills and propagates pride it is thinking that your religion is the one and only true view, all others please go to hell. However, such pride is cloaked in a false humility and phony sanctity. Quite frankly, it stinks.

"The fundamental difference between Buddhism and other religions is that Buddhism has no God or gods before whom people bow down in return for peace of mind. The spirit enmeshed in the Buddha's teachings refuses to offer a god in exchange for freedom from anxiety. Instead, freedom from anxiety can only be found at that point where the Self settles naturally upon itself."
Zen source

(Note: the above is not a belief. It can be verified as accurate by anyone who takes the time to experience it for themselves.)

 

[lockyfan]

So are the scriptures. Why do you think Jesus told his audience that they were mistaken to think to find eternal life within the scriptures? Who do you think wrote the scriptures, if not men?

Where did he say that?

But he did do exactly that by planting a poisonous but tempting fruit in the Garden right under the noses of his children, and then commanding them not to eat of it, knowing full well that it would be impossible to resist the temptation. That is an evil mind in my book.

God will not allow us to be tested beyond what we can bear
1 cor 10:13
James 1:13

Deliberately creating calamity is the same as creating evil. Both are intentional, with the same results. The difference is in words only.

If a young boy throws small boulders from a freeway overpass for the purpose of creating calamity, and there are deaths as a result, is there any evil involved or not?

Its the childs choice to do that. God didnt make him do it.

James 1:12-15
Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving him. When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.

Your God's calamity is far, far worse. If that is love, you can trash it.

Again Calamity not Evil and not created by him, but Satan. Thus hte reason why we have the whole purpose of the sacrifice by Jesus. If God didnt love us he would have just let the evil take over the world. But we know that Through Jesus there will be a new and better life

No one else was around, so God had to have been the culprit. The serpent only made his appearance after God set up the scene.

If the Satan hadnt said anything to Eve they would not have sinned.

 

[lockyfan]

What is in store for him? He will be sitting pretty, since his is the lion's share of souls, and since he is given eternal life and since he is appointed premier Torturer of Unrepentant Souls in Hell for all Eternity. He won't be suffering at all! He will be laughing his asss off!:biglaugh:

No he wont be suffering

He will be DEAD

Read your bible.

Revelation 20 1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while

Revelation 20:7-10
Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.




LAKE OF FIRE

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: “This means the second death, the lake of fire.”—Re 20:14; 21:8.

The symbolic quality of the lake of fire is further evident from the context of references to it in the book of Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. (Re 20:14, 20) Death obviously cannot be literally burned. Moreover, the Devil, an invisible spirit creature, is thrown into the lake. Being spirit, he cannot be hurt by literal fire.—Re 20:10; compare Ex 3:2 and Jg 13:20.

Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Thus, those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant opposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15.

While the foregoing texts make evident the symbolic quality of the lake of fire, it has been used by some persons to support belief in a literal place of fire and torment. Revelation 20:10 has been appealed to, because it speaks of the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in the lake of fire. However, this cannot refer to actual conscious torment. Those thrown into the lake of fire undergo “the second death.” (Re 20:14) In death there is no consciousness and, hence, no feeling of pain or suffering.—Ec 9:5.

In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (ba′sa‧nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba‧sa‧ni‧smou′].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.

Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba‧sa‧ni′zo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba‧sa‧ni‧stes′ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.—See GEHENNA; TORMENT.

 

[lockyfan]

Please cite the source of this unique definition of 'evil'

Albert Einstein

 

[McBell]

Albert Einstein

When and in what work?

 

[godnotgod]

No he wont be suffering

He will be DEAD

Then nothing will matter since he won't be around to notice. That, in turn, may cause him to laugh his asss off!:biglaugh:

Revelation 20 1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

Revelation 20:7-10
Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Except that dragons do not exist. Poof!...the Magic Dragon sez so! They are fantasy creatures, just like the Bible!

LAKE OF FIRE

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: “This means the second death, the lake of fire.”—Re 20:14; 21:8.

The symbolic quality of the lake of fire is further evident from the context of references to it in the book of Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. (Re 20:14, 20) Death obviously cannot be literally burned. Moreover, the Devil, an invisible spirit creature, is thrown into the lake. Being spirit, he cannot be hurt by literal fire.—Re 20:10; compare Ex 3:2 and Jg 13:20.

Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Thus, those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant opposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15.

While the foregoing texts make evident the symbolic quality of the lake of fire, it has been used by some persons to support belief in a literal place of fire and torment. Revelation 20:10 has been appealed to, because it speaks of the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in the lake of fire. However, this cannot refer to actual conscious torment. Those thrown into the lake of fire undergo “the second death.” (Re 20:14) In death there is no consciousness and, hence, no feeling of pain or suffering.—Ec 9:5.]

?

In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (ba′sa‧nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba‧sa‧ni‧smou′].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.

Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba‧sa‧ni′zo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba‧sa‧ni‧stes′ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.—See GEHENNA; TORMENT.

One must be conscious in order to be tormented, and being dead is not having consciousness.

"Dead" means that the self who is dead no longer exists. Therefore, there is no one who is dead, once you are dead.

 

[godnotgod]

When and in what work?

The following may be what he is referring to, which has been shown to be fiction. When I first read it, it smacked of fiction without my knowing that it was:

Einstein Proves That God Exists in a Confrontation with a Professor-Fiction!​

Summary of the eRumor
This is an account of a classroom encounter between young Albert Einstein and a professor who was arguing that the Christian faith is a myth.
Einstein argues that evil is the absence of God in the same way that darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat.

The Truth
There is no evidence that this exchange ever took place.
This eRumor has circulated without Einstein's name and someone added it to a version that started circulating in the summer of 2004.
Also, it is not likely that young Einstein would have presented this argument.
In his Autobiographical Notes, he states that even though his Jewish family was not religious, he developed a "deep religiosity" as Jewish child that came to an end when he was 12.
He says he developed a skeptical attitude that never left him.
He made reference to "God" on many occasions but also said he did not believe some of the stories in the Bible and did not believe in a personal God.

Last updated 8/25/04 A real example of the eRumor as it has appeared on the Internet:
This has a thought provoking message no matter how you believe. Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied yes, he did!"
"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes, sir," the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil."
The student became quiet before such an answer.

The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat.

The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does".

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young mans name --- Albert Einstein

Einstein proves God in an encounter with a professor-Fiction!

(Christians, it seems, will go to any length to make a lie fit their doctrinal beliefs, even to using someone's good name and reputation. Ah, the lure of hiding behind the color of authority to make yourself seem credible!)

 

[godnotgod]

Einstein Proves That God Exists in a Confrontation with a Professor-Fiction!​

Summary of the eRumor
This is an account of a classroom encounter between young Albert Einstein and a professor who was arguing that the Christian faith is a myth.
Einstein argues that evil is the absence of God in the same way that darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat.

It appears to me that the flaw in the student's argument is partly one of incorrect analogy. Light and heat can be measured. They fall into the categories of energy, composed of particles, waves or photons. I assume that darkness can be measured as well with a light meter and cold can be measured with a thermometer. Good and evil cannot be measured in these ways. They are concepts, the definition of which is relative one to the other. The error in logic which the student is making is that he is simply substituting 'God's love' for 'moral good', but even that argument is faulty, since for good (ie; 'God's love') to exist, there must be a concept of moral evil to compare it against. Of course, we have that in the persona of Satan and his evil nature, whom, by the way, God created. Relative good and evil are inseparable. Eliminate one, and the other is non-existent.

On top of that, the idea of "the absence of God's love" is an illusion. If God exists, his presence permeates his entire creation, the universe, inside and outside. Thinking oneself separated from the source is an illusion of the mind only. It cannot happen.

This is not to say that an Absolute Good does not exist, without an opposite, since it is non-dual in nature. But it is not a moral Good that requires an adversary against which its "goodness" is understood.

 

[Composer]

Even the story book states that ' above all else ' the greatest deceiver and Adversary to the story book God is Man's deceitful mind ' -

The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad.17 Who can understand it? (Jer. 17:9) NET story book

Thus according to the story book, the mere propensity of the human mind to deceive, outclasses any alleged or otherwise Satan naughty spirit being concocted by christians or the like minded literal naughty Satan spirit being believers, regardless.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion , walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1 Pet. 5:8) KJV story book

Be sober and alert. Your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion,14 is on the prowl looking for someone15 to devour. (1 Pet. 5:8) NET story book

So it refers to ' humans ' and their corrupt ideologies.

 

[lockyfan]

Except that dragons do not exist. Poof!...the Magic Dragon sez so! They are fantasy creatures, just like the Bible!

Its figurative notl iteral, another name for Satan from the bible.

One must be conscious in order to be tormented, and being dead is not having consciousness.

Thats correct you can not be tormented because you are dead.

"Dead" means that the self who is dead no longer exists. Therefore, there is no one who is dead, once you are dead.

Sorry I dont get his, once you are dead there is no one dead?

That makes no sense

Death is the opposite of life So if you are alive you are existing and if you are dead you are no longer existing, unless in God's memory nad then you get ressurected to life in the 1000 year reign of Christ

 

[McBell]

Death is the opposite of life So if you are alive you are existing and if you are dead you are no longer existing, unless in God's memory nad then you get ressurected to life in the 1000 year reign of Christ

Oh yeah.
The ever popular "Except God" argument.....

 

[lockyfan]

Oh yeah.
The ever popular "Except God" argument.....

No, God keeps you in his memory, but you are not alive or existing with him, you are DEAD. Non Existant. He will resurrect you in the 1000 year reign of christ

 

[Pegg]

Well, he knew he could not overpower God. So, why didn't he try to repent and see if God will forgive him or not? Surely, he knows he has no hope of winning the wars.

I often wonder what is Satan' motivation for doing evil back when I was still a christian.

for the same reason that Adam and Eve did not repent.

Satan was in a state of perfection before he sinned. This meant that he could perfectly reflect Gods standards without having to think about how to. He was created in Gods image just as Adam & Eve were created in Gods image and while in that image they could perfectly reflect God.

So when they all sinned, it wasnt simply a bad decision they made, or a mistake...it was a deliberate choice and for that reason they were unrepentant. Satan has gone so far in his deliberate rebellion that even 'if' he did repent, he would not receive forgiveness just as Adam and Eve did not receive forgiveness.