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Featured Christians why do youc are so much about Atheists belief in evolution and science

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, May 4, 2017.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Sense so many Christians are obsessed with proving Atheists are wrong and are combative about proving Jesus is God and creational science as truth to Atheists. Why are you so combative and obsessed with ATheists and the Evolution?
     
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I've noticed in the real world, that's not the case. Most Christians around me, instead, can care less I'm an atheist (the Catholics, specifically) and don't touch anything about evolution and science-if I cared about that as well, but I dont-but more focused on bringing me and atheists to christ.

    Maybe it's just an online thing and/or local but from what I experienced from christians, none of them (and I met a lot ) none of them can care less about evolution and science as long as atheist don't belittle their faith, they are fine.
     
  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    That's a good thing then. I have heard my sisters argue that creationism needs to be taught in schools several times.
     
  4. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    I sometimes wonder the same thing, especially when there are some who don't want evolution to be taught in public schools.

    I don't even see what the problem is. It's possible to believe that God created the Earth and that the Theory of Evolution is valid and should be taught in science classes.

    Someone might see a flower and say "God created a beautiful flower." A botanist might look at that same flower and be able to identify all the parts and be able to explain everything about that flower. But doing that doesn't directly negate or deny the possibility that "God created a beautiful flower." I can't see how a scientist studying something and trying to reach some explanation for the state of the universe would threaten anyone's belief or threaten the "creation" itself.

    I think there may have been some opposition not motivated by religion, but more taking offense at the idea that they were "descended from apes." It's like some sort of aspersion on their family name, as if they believe that someone is calling their great-granddaddy an ape.
     
  5. CogentPhilosopher

    CogentPhilosopher Philosophy Student

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    Well I think they can do it for a variety of reasons.

    Some do it purely out of altruism because many believe we will burn in hell-fire for eternity if they don't.

    Some do it because they feel that the existence of atheists is a personal attack against them.

    Some do it because they think they are supposed to do works like that to get into heaven.
     
  6. BeerMe

    BeerMe New Member

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    Christians sincerely believe that their way is the right way and they have strong evidence for believing that. Atheists may have strong evidence for believing in their position, but neither position can be proven and that's the ultimate truth. You cannot prove that atheism is correct. Christianity is a leap of faith in which no amount of knowledge can substitute for. "god had used the foolish things of the world to shame the wise". So to answer you're original question, Christians have been given stronger conviction, through the supernatural, than atheists in their secular knowledge, in order to counter their claims.
     
  7. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Not all atheists even base their views on science such as cosmology, evolution or atomic theory.
     
  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I see three big probable reasons for this... all suppositions based on my experience:

    - Catholic doctrine doesn't say as much about evolution as most other Christian denominations. What it says is still wrong, of course, but the distinction between monogenean and polygenism is a lot more subtle than the distinction between young earth creationism and evolution. IMO, not too many people - Catholics or otherwise - know evolutionary science enough to recognize that monogenism is incompatible with evolutionary theory. OTOH, anyone with even a passing familiarity with evolution can see that young earth creationism is utterly unscientific.

    - Catholics tend not to care much about Catholic doctrine. On many important issues (e.g. contraception, gay rights), you'll see huge portions of the laity disagreeing with - or even openly defying - the official Church position. Other denominations tend to be better at getting their members to toe the official line.

    - Lay Catholics aren't encouraged to proselytize the way that members of other denominations are. In Catholicism, there's often an attitude that going out and engaging with non-believers is best left to groups like the Jesuits and isn't something that the average believer is expected to do.
     
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  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That has been my personal experience as well.

    As for the OP's questions - to the best of my understanding many Christians have an actual emotional need for claiming that human existence is a literal miracle.

    While many of them may fail to accept that, let alone admit it aloud, they could not care less whether evolution is true. What bothers them is that there are people who openly refuse to claim divine origin for human existence. Their emotional structure relies on the perception of divine favor as an assurance for humanity as a whole, and they feel belittled when others refuse to fall in line with that expectation.
     
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  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    That's why I see the opposite of the OP. I haven't experienced many Catholics if any that know about evolution to talk about it. Of course, if it disagrees with their doctrine, they'd disagree. But they aren't pushy about it.

    I honestly I can careless about evolution and science in relations to religion. The only issue with me on a societal level is not having specific religions taught in school.

    They care extremely about abortion rights. A lot of parishes like the one near me once a year have picket signs along the main road. They don't shove cars or anything like that. Just hold up their signs and wave it so people can see. Others have bumper sticks and sometimes a couple of Masses are wrapped around the importance of life.

    Believe me, Catholics do care. It would break their faith if they weren't. It's a community not individual. So, if a Catholic falters, he goes back to the community and "Says sorry" by the absolution or pardon from the priest as a authority of the community and from god, does his penance, and be back part of the body. They care a whole lot more than I see non denominational.

    Catholics go out to their "own kind." The retreat I went to was only for Catholics. The Legion of Mary visits us twice a year Easter and Christmas to check up on us. They help all people but when it comes to sacraments and belief, it's an inside circle. They do evangelize but not in the manner you see fundamentalist do. It's very subtle and non threatening. Also, Catholics I know they give you time to think without backlash. It's healthier but still evangelization nonetheless. That's what scripture teaches via the Apostles in Acts. The Church is a continuation from the Apostles and Roman history, so of course they will go out.

    Just fundamentalist have a different method and many anti-christians focus on them as a "definition" of evangelizing.
     
  11. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    Here in the UK there are few Christians who reject evolution.
     
    #11 Rival, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  12. omega2xx

    omega2xx Well-Known Member

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    IMO, most Christians are not concerned about what you believe about evolution and we certainly are not obsessed with atheists.
     
  13. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    What about climate change denial? Is that another thing that's exclusive to U.S. conservatives (which most Christians here identify as, and vice versa)?
     
  14. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    Pretty much.
     
  15. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be some confusion concerning Catholic doctrine on evolution. Catholics are free to accept the theory of evolution. There is but one stipulation, ;“[The] Church does not forbid...research and discussions...take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter…”but the soul is directly from God, and could not arise from natural processes.

    Pope John Paul II came out more strongly for Darwin’s theory, calling evolution “more than a hypothesis.” On the subject of the soul, however, John Paul agreed with Pius. The soul, John Paul agreed, could not emerge “from the forces of living matter, or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter.”

    Pope Francis departs from his predecessor Benedict, is that he appears not merely to tolerate the existence of the theory of evolution, but to celebrate it,
    Pope Francis’s Remarks on Evolution Are Not That Controversial Among Roman Catholics

    As far as the CCC is concerned its treatment of evolution is not surprising as it does not present theories nor hypotheses, only statements of faith.
    Pope Francis’s Remarks on Evolution Are Not That Controversial Among Roman Catholics

    As for climate change Pope Francis used the encyclical — titled “Laudato Si’,” or “Praise Be to You” — to highlight the crisis posed by climate change. He places most of the blame on fossil fuels and human activity, while warning of an “unprecedented destruction of ecosystems, with serious consequence for all of us” if corrective action is not taken swiftly.
     
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  16. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    First, you have to appreciate the diversity of those who are "Christians". As you can tell from the comments so far, not all Christians are into actively trying to counter atheism and/or science. It's mostly fundamentalist Christians in the US who do that.

    So if you want to know why fundamentalist Christians devote so much of their time and money to trying to counter science, all you have to do is go to one of their websites. They're pretty up front about what motivates them....

    Why Recent Creation?

    It basically boils down to them believing that modern science is a threat to their faith. And guess what? Science is a threat to fundamentalist Christianity and its belief in a 6,000 year old universe, special creation of organisms, and global flood.

    So it's just that simple.....fundies spend a lot of time and money opposing science because it is a direct threat to their entire worldview.
     
    #16 Jose Fly, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    You forgot one other important - and utterly anti-scientific - stipulation imposed on Catholics:

    Humani Generis (August 12, 1950) | PIUS XII

    Effectively, this means that human beings did not arise by evolution, since it's saying that "true men" arose as a single lone pair, which just isn't how speciation works.
     
  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    I agree with LuisDantas. Many Christians' are emotionally invested in their species being the crown of creation and God's special project. Any threat to this world view is a threat to their ego-integrity, and the more well supported the countervailing evidence the greater the threat.

    Those who dwell in straw houses are more aggressive in their defense than those in brick houses.

    That would be a pretty short class, as the entire content could be summarized by "Goddidit!" I wonder, though -- what class would cover it?
    Christians have no empirical evidence supporting Christianity. Please give us some examples.
    Atheists have no position to support; no assertions that might be correct or incorrect. The entire burden of proof falls on the Christians.
    "...through the supernatural?" What does that mean?
    You seem to be saying that Christians have a stronger belief, despite lack of evidence, and you imply that this somehow supports their position.
     
  19. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The Church does not stagnate in its teaching. The meaning of the pronouncements of faith depends partly on the expressive power of the language used at a certain point in time and in particular circumstances. Sometimes dogmatic truth is first expressed incompletely (but not falsely), and at a later date receives a fuller and more perfect expression. The Church usually has the intention of solving certain questions or removing certain errors. The truths enunciated by the church magisterium are in terms that bear the traces of the changeable conceptions of a given epic. Even though a doctrine is infallibly taught by the church, that doctrine is historically conditioned and may have to be reshaped.

    reference Mysterium Ecclesiae

    Pope Francis
    Pope Francis’ Address at Inauguration of Bronze Bust of Benedict XVI – ZENIT – English
     
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    So the Catholic Church has "reshaped" the doctrine of Original Sin? That's news to me.
     
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