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Christians who deny Christ's divinity/Trinity

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Spear Hunter, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. Spear Hunter

    Spear Hunter New Member

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    I have enjoyed reading the threads here, and would like to pose a question I have run into lately.

    What are peoples thoughts here on professed Christians who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus or the literal trinity? Are they still to be considered Christians? I have read of some early Christian sects that did not believe in the trinity or Christs divinity. And I have met Christians today who do the same. They say they simply follow Christs teachings and worship God. Is this possible, why or why not?
     
  2. strikeviperMKII

    strikeviperMKII New Member

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    I would think that would make them Jewish, but it isn't that simple, I suppose. Christ teaches everything in the Old testament. Honestly, if you say you follow him, then he is God. Because, if you understand the teachings, we all are a part of God. If you believe that, he has to be God. As are we all.
     
    not nom likes this.
  3. Lucian

    Lucian Theologian

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    Yes, we are Christians. I don't believe the trinitarian doctrine. I believe in Christ's divinity. God dwells in him and God dwells in us.
     
  4. Scott C.

    Scott C. Mormon Boy

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    I would say that a Christian is one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, died on the cross for our sins, and was resurrected from the dead. A true Christian must also try to follow the teachings of Jesus.

    A belief in the divinity of Christ and the Trinity are separate issues. I don't believe in the Trinity as taught by the post New Testament creeds. I don't believe the New Testament teaches that doctrine. However, I believe in the divinity of Christ. I am a Christian.

    Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is the Savior, but don't accept his divinity. (If I got that wrong a Jehovah's Witness can correct me). I see them as Christians, as they believe that Christ is the Savior.

    Since this subject comes up a lot, I ask myself why it matters so much to some people. I think some believe that a person is saved now, forever, and irrevocably if and only if he is a Christian. For these people the question "are you a Christian?" is the same as "are you saved?" In their view, a person with less than a perfect understanding of the nature of Christ, is not saved and therefore can't be a Christian.

    While I believe that salvation is in Christ, I don't see salvation in exactly those terms, so I don't worry much about who falls within the definition of Christian. Salvation is a process. There's space and time to learn and grow in our knowledge of the true God. There's time to learn to follow the true God and to repent. In the final judgement, only those who over time have come to understand, follow, and accept Jesus for the Savior and God that he is, will be saved. A person who is not there yet, may or may not be classified at this moment as a Christian.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I most definitely consider myself to be a Christian and I do not believe in the Trinity. (I'm referring to the doctrine established at the Council at Nicea in 325 A.D.) I do believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. I believe that Jesus is divine and was with His Father in the beginning. I believe that He created our universe under His Father's direction, that He was born to a virgin, lived a perfect life, established His Church, voluntarily offered Himself up as a sacrifice to pay for our sins, rose from the dead after three days, and ascended into Heaven where He reigns today on the right hand of His Father. I believe He is the only means by which I can be forgiven of my sins and return to God's presence to live with Him again someday. I guess you could say that I have pretty much the same understanding of Jesus Christ, His relationship to His Father, and our relationship to them that the first century Christians had.
     
  6. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    Wow. I agree, but I gotta say, that is very panentheistic for a "catholic" :D

    Note me as another christian who understands Christ´s divnity and role as son of God to be inclusive :)
     
  7. thesadperson

    thesadperson New Member

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    I've always wondered about Unitarians. What makes you be a Unitarian Christian and not a Jewish or Muslim since they are against the trinity. Is it Christ's message?
     
  8. strikeviperMKII

    strikeviperMKII New Member

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    Catholic means 'universal'. ;)
     
    Me Myself likes this.
  9. Lucian

    Lucian Theologian

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    Yes it is, atleast that's one reason. There are a lot of differences. For Unitarians, God as our Father is very important. Jews don't believe in Jesus or his teachings, Unitarians do. Muslims, although they consider Jesus to be a part of their religion, Jesus' role is different. In Islam, Jesus was someone sent to preach about Mohammed, and only to the Jews - for Unitarians, Jesus' mission is universal, and Unitarians don't believe in Mohammed like the Muslims.

    Muslims don't believe Jesus was crucified, Unitarians do. For Unitarians, Jesus is God's son, which is not allowed to be said in Islam or Judaism. Unitarians don't follow all the ritualistic rules of Judaism, only those based on the law of love (although nothing prevents following all kinds of rules as long as they don't contradict the law of love). Muslims also have their ritualistic rules which Unitarians don't believe. One is baptised in Unitarianism, in the others it's circumcision. I think one could continue this list.
     
    SageTree likes this.
  10. internationalist

    internationalist New Member

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    Anyone who doesn't believe in the trinity cannot claim to be a Christian.
     
  11. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    Anyone who denies his own divinity cannot call himself a Christian.

    See how silly it sounds for me to make the term only mine? :rolleyes:

    ANd at least my assertion is in the bible from JESUS´s words :rolleyes:
     
  12. internationalist

    internationalist New Member

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    Now we have pagans interpreting the Bible, and telling Christians what they should believe!
     
  13. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Religion:
    Anglican...heretic
    And what is to stop them...?

    Certainly, a majority of Christians I have met in my life would claim to believe in the Trinity.

    However, as soon as you question them about it, they can not explain it, and as you delve deeper it is clear that they do not understand their own churches explanation of what the Trinity Is. If you do not understand even the rudiments of something. you can hardly believe in it.

    What they believe is, what their church tells them to believe must be true.

    That is a quite different proposition.
     
    SageTree likes this.
  14. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Religion:
    Anglican...heretic
    a Christian Unitarian Generaly believes in no Dogma. It is neither required nor expected.

    From Welcome to The Non-Subscribing Presbyterian Church of Ireland

    (My family were founders of this Church It is the Irish equavent of Unitarian)
     
  15. Bob Dixon

    Bob Dixon Not sure if Gnostic...

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    I believe that nothing exists except for God so, accordingly, everything has a spark of Divinity.
    The Christ is special because he was sent by God to point us towards the Father. But trinity does not appear in his teachings. It is a useful concept, though, because it teaches us that God cannot be fully comprehended by humans.
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Watch me: I am a Christian and I don't believe in the Trinity.
     
    SageTree likes this.
  17. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    25,163
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Boy that really puts Christ's Apostles in a bad place, doesn't it?

    I'd say that anyone who holds this view of humanity cannot claim to be a Christian:

     
  18. Reverend Rick

    Reverend Rick Frubal Whore Staff Member Premium Member

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    And if we listen to James, Saul, Paul, whatever does not carry as much weight.

    Paul never met Jesus unless you believe his story about the road to damascus.

    Luke is another who never met Jesus.

    We don't even know the authorship of many writings we hang on ever word and translation.

    I'm one of the Christians who this thread speaks of.

    I believe in God. The God in the garden of eden, the God who spoke to Noah. The God who parted the red sea and spoke to Moses.

    The God Jesus prayed to on the cross.

    Jesus is the son of God not to be confused with the God of the old testament.

    I hang on every word Jesus spoke but pray to his father.

    If they are one and the same what would be the difference? Should God say, don't pray to me, pray to me or you prayed to the wrong me?

    I'm praying to the guy Jesus prayed to.

    I follow what Jesus taught. I believe what John and James have to say because they walked and talked with Jesus.

    I'm still sorting out this Pauline-luke stuff I was spoon fed as a child.
     
    SageTree likes this.
  19. strikeviperMKII

    strikeviperMKII New Member

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    You'd be surprised how much people of other faiths can teach you about your own. Any religion that thinks itself the 'one true religion' has already failed, and is no longer religion, but an institution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  20. Spear Hunter

    Spear Hunter New Member

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    5
    Many times getting a new perspective helps one to solidify their belief. A different opinion is always a good thing.
     
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