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Christians who are confused about meat

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Majority of Christians eat pork, though it's prohibited by the bible, yet there's a pro-vegetarian trend going on, even one called Christian vegetarianism. But eating meat is not prohibited in the bible.

Why are they concerned by what God has not commanded and unconcerned by what He has commanded?

Of course most Christians would say the old testament is not binding on them, but that doesn't have anything to back it up.

Because it's not prohibited by the Bible.

Why Do Christians Eat Pork?

It's prohibited to the Jews.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Seems straightforward, no? Keep following the Law of the OT.

Well...

1Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus, 2and they saw some of His disciples eating with hands that were defiled—that is, unwashed.

3Now in holding to the tradition of the elders, the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat until they wash their hands ceremonially. 4And on returning from the market, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions for them to observe, including the washing of cups, pitchers, kettles, and couches for dining.a

5So the Pharisees and scribes questioned Jesus: “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders? Instead, they eat with defiled hands.”

6Jesus answered them, “Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘These people honor Me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from Me.

7They worship Me in vain;

they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’b

8You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.”

14Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand: 15Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.”g

17After Jesus had left the crowd and gone into the house, His disciples inquired about the parable.

18“Are you still so dull?” He asked. “Do you not understand? Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him, 19because it does not enter his heart, but it goes into the stomach and then is eliminated.” (Thus all foods are clean.)

"In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles, and birds. Then a voice said to him, "Get up, Peter; kill and eat them." "No, Lord," Peter declared. "I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean." But the voice spoke again: "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean." The same vision was repeated three times. Then the sheet was suddenly pulled up to heaven."

Pork is just meat. It's about your conduct. If you're a judgemental or sinful person, you deserve people trashing the way you live. On the other hand, living according to a Law is a curse. The Law is a curse because in pursuit of cleanliness, the Jews let down those who were poor, or lepers, or who needed help. This "food" in the vision actually referred to Peter refusing to associate with those very people who did eat different food. The Gentiles. The Christians are no longer Jewish, so no, your point about pork is wrong.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Sadly, my limitation of in knowledge of ancient Hebrew....also, I know that gematria was inserted within Torah and had to be manifested adjustment of literal reading that part is way above my pay grade, e.g. It may have been another than daddy longlegs spider, e.g. Latrodectus pallidus, or White Widow.
The Pentateuch all work together. They can be considered a single book unlike the rest of the books in the canon. One can't have Leviticus and not the other 4 of the Pentateuch, or at least one shouldn't. Where Genesis describes the separation of light and dark it makes sense to consider the laws about kashrut.

I mention the daddy longlegs spider as a general example of a bug not as a specific species from the Torah. Its just a crawling bug with eight legs.

Like you I don't speak Hebrew. It is true that long ago somebody (Ezra the scribe) could have changed the text in order to manage its numeration but nobody has manipulated it in the last two thousand years, mostly. What we have today is what Ezra passed on, and it has not forward nor prologue nor editor's note. It has Talmud though, which is very extensive commentary which I am not capable of reading. Whatever Ezra did or didn't do, the earliest comments available will be somewhere in the Babylonian Talmud amidst arguments for and against all kinds of ideas. One person will argue X and the other will argue anti-X, sort of like in a moot court. Whatever happens to the text, the people in the Talmud will be discussing it -- unless the alleged changes happen previous to the Babylonian incursion. That takes this topic to a thousand BCE where the various texts of the canon are not finalized.
 

Saint Frankenstein

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Premium Member
But we have well warmed homes and cars now.
What does that have to do with growing crops for food? You gonna grow them inside? People in the northern climates depend on meat for survival. What you personally find disgusting is personal and cultural.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Clean or unclean - it is prohibited in the Torah. Even if the apostle is 'convinced'.
So, you don't accept the teachings of the Apostle Paul then? You're not actually a NT Christian? You're self-styled and prefer to OT Law over Grace? I thought you were a Christian, but I misread that apparently.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
So, you don't accept the teachings of the Apostle Paul then? You're not actually a NT Christian? You're self-styled and prefer to OT Law over Grace? Not sure why you use the term Christian then? Why not just convert to Judaism and do the whole law bit then if that resonates more with you than the teachings of the NT?
He is Muslim
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"I
He is Muslim
Ah, I see my confusion. Then he wasn't actually asking for actual reasons why Christians don't do the whole dietary law thing. He asked for the basis, he was shown, he doesn't accept the basis shown is valid. So he really doesn't care, in other words. He just wishes to judge others to make himself feel religiously superior. "I don't eat pork, therefore I'm holy." I see.... we all see, in fact. :)
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Ah, I see my confusion. Then he wasn't actually asking for actual reasons why Christians don't thing the whole dietary thing doesn't apply. He asked for the basis, he was shown, he doesn't accept the basis. So he really doesn't care, in other words. :)
He doesn't understand the concept of a religion that is not based on a set of 1,000 rules. But then again lots of religions don't understand that Christianity is not based on laws or rules and that it just need two rules to abide by and those two rules can be summed up in one Law. It's a stumbling block to lots of religious people. I tried to tell him that Christians are at liberty and that Christians have responsibilities not rules, but he didn't understand me
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He doesn't understand the concept of a religion that is not based on a set of 1,000 rules. But then again lots of religions don't understand that Christianity is not based on laws or rules and that it just need two rules to abide by and those two rules can be summed up in one Law. It's a stumbling block to lots of religious people. I tried to tell him that Christians are at liberty and that Christians have responsibilities not rules, but he didn't understand me
Some people need tightly constricting cages to feel safe in the world.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Alot of people hate Christianity because unfortunately, a great number of churches are actually synagogues.
Their members are fixated on doing the right thing for a reward of Heaven. And judging others when they fail.

What these ex-believers really hate is Judaism. They hate following rules, so they declare themselves to have no sin. We all have sin, that's the point.

My church has a priest that some of her sermons she says something that feels very heavy-morality but says something earlier that completely contradicts her message, making me increasingly feel like her sermons are trolling me.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Alot of people hate Christianity because unfortunately, a great number of churches are actually synagogues.
They are not supposed to be synagogues. That was one of the first things that the early Christians fought against. Turning Christianity into just another rules-based religion. It goes against the whole purpose of the Cross.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Majority of Christians eat pork, though it's prohibited by the bible, yet there's a pro-vegetarian trend going on, even one called Christian vegetarianism. But eating meat is not prohibited in the bible.

Why are they concerned by what God has not commanded and unconcerned by what He has commanded?

Of course most Christians would say the old testament is not binding on them, but that doesn't have anything to back it up.

That's right, alot of Christians will say,
The old testament scriptures is not binding on them.
But yet these very Christians, tithe according to the old testament scriptures.

Now what's exactly wrong with that picture
 

Wasp

Active Member
So, you don't accept the teachings of the Apostle Paul then? You're not actually a NT Christian? You're self-styled and prefer to OT Law over Grace? I thought you were a Christian, but I misread that apparently.
Of course not since the apostle can't be trusted when he speaks what is contradictory to what jesus spoke.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Of course not since the apostle can't be trusted when he speaks what is contradictory to what jesus spoke.
Most Christians do not see it as a contradiction to what Jesus taught, that it is not the letter of the law, but the Spirit that matters. You asked how they justify it. I provided you the justification from their scriptures. They are not just arbitrarily choosing to not be concerned about dietary laws like that. They base it on the teachings of the Apostles. That's what makes them Christian to begin with.

If you disagree with Christianity, that's fine. That's your right to be a legalist and find salvation through obeying rigid codes and laws believing that's what matters most to God, above compassion and Grace. But you asked for the basis, and I have provided it to you. Now you know. You mean to tell them they should reject their own scriptures because of how you choose to speak for God to them? Maybe you could learn something from them instead?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus came to set the captives free from those cages
I believe he shows that it's not necessary to put ourselves into those cages out of our own fear, guilt, and shame. Legalism is to me, a project to build a wall around that core of fear. "If I can tell myself I'm a good person, if others can see I'm good because of how I absolutely obey every single law required of us, then I can tell myself I'm not a bad person inside." All of that is an attempted escape from the truth.

None of that actually releases us from that fear, guilt, and shame. It simply tries to hide the truth of ourselves, the truth of how we see ourselves, under the rug of a rigid self-righteousness. And the result of that is a prison of our own creation, by turning God into our jail-keeper. It's all denialism, and no true Liberation, or Freedom, or Salvation, which is freedom from fear.

Legalism binds us to our fear, as it is a creation of it to try to mask it, like drinking alcohol to cover over and "forget" about our pain. Love alone is what releases us from all fear, and all our projects to avoid the truth in ourselves.
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
God is rational . It was easier to prohibit harmful things than explain microbiology. Btw there was no punishment indicated, you eat garbage you suffer, not the same with gay sex, for example.

S.D. Again.

Just add defenses against bacteria or natural disgust. After all, I feel no temptation to eat rotting bodies, or other disgusting things like dogs crap, so why not design us to naturally repel those dangerous things too, instead of complicating things with rules and such?

Ciao

- viole
 
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