Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

[MJFlores]

No discrimination? LOL

No discrimination - even when you are black, white, brown, yellow or red

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

No discrimination - even when you are black, white, brown, yellow or red

yeah I know and get it; are you saying the "jews" had to worship the golden calf to get thrown out their land or they are also left out of the new covenant.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Double bind.

 

[jcforever]

what came out of a pyramid sometimes is usually sidelined.

You already used that sarcastic remark in the other post.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?
How were some O.T. laws dropped, and others kept?
A few Christians can be self-righteously judgemental about the lives, feelings, cultures, sexualities and beliefs of others.
Exactly what laws are within the New-Covenant, and which others 'repealed'?

I would argue the laws that are repeated in the new testament are the laws you should keep from the old. Though which laws those are actually pretty debatable. If you consider Paul ( a man who never met Jesus while he was alive) the mouth piece for Jesus things like homosexuality and various other things are still sin and the law is still to be followed. If you consider what Jesus said " You are not to change a dot or a tittle of he law" I would argue that could either be telling everyone of his followers to embrace the law or that the jews who follow the law need to continue to do so without alteration.

Then of course it depends which Gospels are cannon and which ones are not. If you start to include gnostic or non canonical gospels the issues just gets muddied further to the point where you can say pretty much anything you want and still be considered a follower of Jesus.

If you ask me the bible pretty much separates which laws are for the gentiles and which laws are for the Jews. Just go ask a Noahide.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, if you want to use that particular term. We believe that many Christians can have the gift of prophecy or receive visions from God, but we typically don't call these people "prophets". To us, a "prophet" refers to people from the Old Testament who God singled out to give a revelation to the people of Israel. We believe that the full faith given to us by Jesus Christ has already been revealed; we don't need any further prophets. I believe it's said that God's revelation of the faith to mankind stopped with the death of St. John, the last of the Apostles and the author of the Book of Revelation. Everything beyond that is just clarifying what has already been revealed to us.

OK...... but Judas and Silas are proper prophets, is that right? My bible calls them 'prophets'.
Obviously I am seeking a list of Christian law on this thread, and presumably your Prophets can make laws, is that right?
If your Prophets cannot make laws, then only what Jesus said can count, I'm guessing?

 

[oldbadger]

That's easy; ignore the ones that would impact or inconvenience you, and preach the ones that can be used to judge and condemn others.

...Hi......
But that's licence to be a total git, surely?
There has got to be a list of laws for Christians to keep to, just as clear as the 613 listed for the Israelites, and I need to seek it out.

I expect that I bust one or two, but I want to know which ones, and by whose authority they are laws.
Oh dear...... My wife says I bust loads of 'em, but she's guessing!

 

[oldbadger]

The ceremonial and sacrificial parts were dispensed with because Christ came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. He said that the whole law was summed up in just two.....

Matthew 22:35-40
"And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."

Jesus also reaffirmed God's standards for marriage and the moral consequences of sexual immorality. (Matthew 5:27-28; Matthew 19:3-9)

How do you decide that ceremonia and sacrificial laws were repealed by Jesus saying that he had come to fulfill the law? I personally believe that Jesus was totally against sacrifice and many ceremonies which cost the working people so much money, but what is 'written' down to show you that?

You said about Jesus only making two laws, because I can see in Matthew that he said:

{19:18}He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do nomurder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, {19:19} Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[oldbadger]

Some people have no problem dictating their own laws of their own spiritual-religious views, deciding what they wish to practice and how they wish to practice it, and how they wish to live their lives. I completely approve. These people may or may not draw inspiration from holy books or religions. I approve regardless. It is a way of altering and manipulating your own programming.

A religious code of discipline, for example, needn't be something handed down over many generations, or dictated by some council or some prophet. It can be incredibly awesome and effective when it is... but a religious (or non-religious) code of discipline can be constructed and practiced by the individual as well.

Gosh! But that would be so confusing in a community.
Everybody would just be making up their own laws, and there would be no common-law for everybody to know about and stick to.

You don't know where you are without common-law.

 

[oldbadger]

As long as God called you with His voice and forces you to obey ALL His commandments, there's nothing to worry about.
................................

Hi........ that is exactly what I seek to discover...... where can I find the list of ALL the commandments or laws that a Christian must keep to.......?

Do you know all these laws? I need to list them.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, if you want to use that particular term. We believe that many Christians can have the gift of prophecy or receive visions from God, but we typically don't call these people "prophets". To us, a "prophet" refers to people from the Old Testament who God singled out to give a revelation to the people of Israel. We believe that the full faith given to us by Jesus Christ has already been revealed; we don't need any further prophets. I believe it's said that God's revelation of the faith to mankind stopped with the death of St. John, the last of the Apostles and the author of the Book of Revelation. Everything beyond that is just clarifying what has already been revealed to us.

Thankyou for your reply.
But so far, apart from don't steal, murder, commit adultery (from Jesus) not one more law has yet been mentioned.
What laws do Christians keep to?
The 613 Israelite laws have no authority for you, correct?

 

[oldbadger]

The old covenant only applies to ancient Israel while the new covenant applies to all who are in Christ.

Hebrews 8:13 New International Version (NIV)
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


We read the Old Testament bible, to reflect on things about God, about the Lord Jesus Christ and about what happened to ancient Israel. Sabbath and kosher foods are removed in the new covenant in accommodation to the Gentiles in Christ. Penalties of death were repealed in the New Covenant. Circumcision optional, not required. Most of the law in the old are also reflected in the new covenant.

Summary:

Old Covenant = ancient Israel only - Non Jews Keep Out
= circumcision required

New Covenant = all in Christ - no discrimination

Thankyou!
Now we're getting somewhere.
I just need to know what laws out of the 613 OT laws are 'old covenant' and where kit is clearly written that they are 'repealed'.

Or....... a list of the 'new covenant' laws and where it is written, and by whose authority these laws are for Christians to keep.

Do you know the laws? I hope so....

 

[oldbadger]

No discrimination - even when you are black, white, brown, yellow or red

That is the 4th law then on my list.
But I am confused because Jesus clearly did show that he wanted to support the Jewish working people before Gentiles, Samaritans etc...... I have read that.

 

[oldbadger]

No discrimination - even when you are black, white, brown, yellow or red

Oh...! But there surely is discrimination in other ways.... yes?
In a lot of Churches women cannot be priests. In some Churches women cannot speak, or so I've heard. Is that a law?

 

[oldbadger]

I would argue the laws that are repeated in the new testament are the laws you should keep from the old. Though which laws those are actually pretty debatable. If you consider Paul ( a man who never met Jesus while he was alive) the mouth piece for Jesus things like homosexuality and various other things are still sin and the law is still to be followed. If you consider what Jesus said " You are not to change a dot or a tittle of he law" I would argue that could either be telling everyone of his followers to embrace the law or that the jews who follow the law need to continue to do so without alteration.

Then of course it depends which Gospels are cannon and which ones are not. If you start to include gnostic or non canonical gospels the issues just gets muddied further to the point where you can say pretty much anything you want and still be considered a follower of Jesus.

If you ask me the bible pretty much separates which laws are for the gentiles and which laws are for the Jews. Just go ask a Noahide.

I don't know if I have ever met a Noahide.

I am just seeking a list of the Christian Laws, and I can see that it is going to be a difficult task to discover these.

That is strange, because the sraelite laws are written down as clear as text can make them.

It does not loo as if Christ is the only voice in the Christian Faiths.

 

[Rival]

I don't know if I have ever met a Noahide.

Hi.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Hi.

BOOM and like magic she appears to answer all of thine questions yo.

 

[oldbadger]

Hi.

.....Hi back...!
Can you help?
I seek to discover what laws Christians follow, and by whose authority those laws are upheld.
But I get the impression that this is going to be a long search....

 

[Rival]

.....Hi back...!
Can you help?
I seek to discover what laws Christians follow, and by whose authority those laws are upheld.
But I get the impression that this is going to be a long search....

As I'm not a Christian I can't help you. When I was a Xian, it was 'follow the moral laws, not the rest'.

 

[oldbadger]

Double bind.

Hi.....
Can I ask you?
You're a Christian, so can I ask you if you still keep Old Testament Laws, and if so, which ones, and how are the others discarded by Christians?