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Christians: Where do you draw the line?

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
So, if this is the case, why did your answer begins with "it depends?" If I understand your post, anyone who do not believe in the Trinity will be doomed unless they change their belief, am I correct?

People who have come to faith in Jesus in the power of the Spirit will ultimately have their hearts softened toward the community of faith. They will want to remain in communion with the community whom God has called. Hence they won't actively oppose the teaching of that community. That's not to say that they'll understand everything. Thus a new convert may have some difficulty with this or that doctrine, but they will nevertheless maintain that it is true and wholesome and worthy of acceptance, although at the moment they have difficulty assimilating the doctrine or seeing its relevance or <other difficulty>. As earlier Christian scholars have said, ours is a faith seeking understanding. We trust before we understand everything.

Also, I can't help but believe that deeds matter more than words. Thus, even if a person believes something contrary to Christian doctrine yet lives a life that demonstrates love, forgiveness, repentance, and the whole panoply of Christian virtues, I'm reasonably confident that God will not turn them away. Nor will the church.

However, the situation is different for the person who actually teaches and promotes ideas contrary to Christian tradition. The Church must maintain discipline, so such a person, virtuous as he may be, will probably not enjoy full communion with the saints. Depending on the seriousness of the doctrine at issue, the person may yet be excommunicated. But all that means is that the person's relationship with the community of faith is temporarily imperiled. It says jack squat about his relationship with God, a matter about which it would be better to remain silent.
 

deelo505

Member
Which Bible? The one that was in use before the Protestants omitted what had been there for centuries or the one in which they removed what God had never intended to be there? :rolleyes:

thigns where removed, whole books were removed from the bible because of its contents liek there is a book about a girl who was supposedly the first eve jnamed lily and awhole book about mary and her conception and life,this one was takn out to get to the important juicy part about Jesus the reason because they felt it was obsolete, but theres nothing we can do about it. The "bible" you read hasnt got everything either so ...hey...diffenent places had different parts of the bible as well so which one are you talking about. ex. in africa they discoverd a lost book of the bible that the africans had been studying for centuries so....you should be able to find out info on this at the www.historychannel.com
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
There are a lot Christians who don't believe in the Trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel, some people believe that Jesus is the Son of God but not God (I don't how that can be since God would begat God and there is only one God). I believe that Jesus was 100% God and yet 100% human as well- I can't explain it but I believe it.

Since the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, do Christians have to believe in it in order to be saved? I don't even want to attempt to answer that question.
 

Michel07

Active Member
There are a lot Christians who don't believe in the Trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel, some people believe that Jesus is the Son of God but not God (I don't how that can be since God would begat God and there is only one God). I believe that Jesus was 100% God and yet 100% human as well- I can't explain it but I believe it.

Since the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, do Christians have to believe in it in order to be saved? I don't even want to attempt to answer that question.

Gen 1 , 26
Then God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

Isaiah 6, 3

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts!.

Isaiah 48, 16
Come near to me and hear this!
Not from the beginning did I speak it in secret;
" Now the Lord, God has sent me,
and his spirit.

Matthew 28, 19

Go ,therefore, and make disciples
of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father,and of the Son, and of the
holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all
that I have commanded you. And behold,
I am with you always until the end of the age.

1 John 5, 7

So there are three that testify,




Does this help?
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
Gen 1 , 26
Then God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

Isaiah 6, 3

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts!.

Isaiah 48, 16
Come near to me and hear this!
Not from the beginning did I speak it in secret;
" Now the Lord, God has sent me,
and his spirit.

Matthew 28, 19

Go ,therefore, and make disciples
of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father,and of the Son, and of the
holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all
that I have commanded you. And behold,
I am with you always until the end of the age.

1 John 5, 7

So there are three that testify,




Does this help?


I dont beleive you're catholic.

do you beleive in oneness?
or are you proving that the Father , the Son and the HS are distinct/seperate persons?
 

Hope

Princesinha
hahahahahahahaah!

you make me laugh, you make your self sound like some smart guy who thinks he knows that he is talking about.

whose teachings are in the bible? are you that stupid to make such a term as biblian???? gee ... i will not waste my time on you... say what ever you want.

That is such a mature, Christ-like response.....:sarcastic
 

Hope

Princesinha
And gosh darn it, dunemeister, if I could frubal you for every single post in this thread, I would. Alas, that I cannot even give you one right now. :( I have enjoyed reading your incredibly insightful, articulate, and Spirit-led posts. They're all zingers. Bravo.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
One can be straight-forward and non-hypocritical without belittling and laughing at someone. Such disrespect dishonors Christ. :(


I will admit to the laughing part.

belittling is only belittling when it is not true.

but if something is made to look stupid as matter of fact. it is not belittling.
 

Michel07

Active Member
Just a clarification sir,

if i am not mistaken, the concept of the holy trinity states that the Father, The son and the HS is a single being in three distinct persons. did i understand it correctly?

There is a thread on the Trinity that may answer your question better than I can. I have a somewhat simple understanding of the Trinity. Three persons in one. I once mentioned that St. Patrick taught it by holding up a three leaf clover first. I am not a theologian but the fullness of understanding of the Holy Trinity is an understanding of God Himself. And to some degree, in my view, a little bit of a mystery.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
There is a thread on the Trinity that may answer your question better than I can. I have a somewhat simple understanding of the Trinity. Three persons in one. I once mentioned that St. Patrick taught it by holding up a three leaf clover first. I am not a theologian but the fullness of understanding of the Holy Trinity is an understanding of God Himself. And to some degree, in my view, a little bit of a mystery.


I see, i already had an exchange about this matter with dunmeister, i dont know if you ran into that thread.

with the knowledge of the bible that i have learned, pretty much every mystery in the bible has its significance. and beleive it or not, our pastor explains this mysteries to us every saturday. one new mystery every week.

unfortunately sir, the concept of the trinity is not biblical. people try to explain it that way. but as you said just say it is a mystery and do not offer a significance.

I therefore argue, that The father, the son , and the HS being three seperate and distinct entities has its spiritual significance. i can provide a more elaborate answer if you require.
 

Michel07

Active Member
I see, i already had an exchange about this matter with dunmeister, i dont know if you ran into that thread.

with the knowledge of the bible that i have learned, pretty much every mystery in the bible has its significance. and beleive it or not, our pastor explains this mysteries to us every saturday. one new mystery every week.

unfortunately sir, the concept of the trinity is not biblical. people try to explain it that way. but as you said just say it is a mystery and do not offer a significance.

I therefore argue, that The father, the son , and the HS being three seperate and distinct entities has its spiritual significance. i can provide a more elaborate answer if you require.

Some people seem to need to see the exact word in the Bible to accept the idea but the Holy Spirit did not leave us alone when Jesus left. Indeed Jesus promised that. And He , not until the end of time.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
:angel2:
Some people seem to need to see the exact word in the Bible to accept the idea but the Holy Spirit did not leave us alone when Jesus left. Indeed Jesus promised that. And He , not until the end of time.

I agree that Christ left the Apostles in the guidance of the HS. but it does not make them one.

I am actually more concerned in the spiritual significance of the doctrine, rather than the seing the actual doctrine in the bible. I agree that their are concepts that are not written tothe letter. that is why it is important to also find biblical significance ofthe doctrne in so that christians are guided in a single viewpoint. :angel2:
 

Michel07

Active Member
:angel2:

I agree that Christ left the Apostles in the guidance of the HS. but it does not make them one.

I am actually more concerned in the spiritual significance of the doctrine, rather than the seing the actual doctrine in the bible. I agree that their are concepts that are not written tothe letter. that is why it is important to also find biblical significance ofthe doctrne in so that christians are guided in a single viewpoint. :angel2:

I am a believer in the unity of the Body of Christ ( The Church) and hope for its return. Right now we have divisions that are not conducive to that hope. But God is in charge and I believe we will make it through. However, I would have to say that any man who says there are no mysteries regarding God is someone to beware of because even Jesus said of the parousia, " No one knows the hour, not the angels , not even the Son but only the Father."
Does that sound like there are no mysteries?
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
I am a believer in the unity of the Body of Christ ( The Church) and hope for its return. Right now we have divisions that are not conducive to that hope. But God is in charge and I believe we will make it through. However, I would have to say that any man who says there are no mysteries regarding God is someone to beware of because even Jesus said of the parousia, " No one knows the hour, not the angels , not even the Son but only the Father."
Does that sound like there are no mysteries?

I didnt say they're arent any mysteries. what i am saying is they are explained. in so that christians can apply the significance of these mysteries in their lives. hence " living in christ is made real"

what i am saying is, we must look for the significance of these mysteries in so that we are all indeed one in christ, with one viewpoint, in one truth. and i know you share that concept me.
 

Michel07

Active Member
I didnt say they're arent any mysteries. what i am saying is they are explained.

What I am saying is that a mystery by definition cannot be completely explained otherwise it would not be a mystery. Humility leads to more wisdom than pride does.
 

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
I believe that Jesus was 100% God and yet 100% human as well- I can't explain it but I believe it.

As do I, I believe we are all part of the deity, all of us are 100% God and 100% human also, but Jesus was just the first to start a religion based on that idea. it made him not so popular with the theistic monopoly of the time.


we are physically mortal but we are made in the image of the creator (contain within us a fractal image of the universe) ---we too are creators, we all can make change in the world, can make a difference because we are always creating (entire universes if you believe chaos theory).

our very existence has an effect on the world around us, its unavoidable.:cool:
 
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