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Christians: The Unpardonable Sin

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Mister Emu, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Matthew 12:31-32

    "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

    What do you believe speaking against the Holy Spirits means and why?
     
  2. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    In the time of christ many people spoke against Jesus, or the son of man. This says that sin will be forgiven. This says that speaking against the holy spirit, or word of god, is unpardonable sin. In other words, refusing the doctrine of Christ is the unpardonable sin.
     
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    From: Summa Theologica. The theological masterpiece of St. Thomas Aquinas:



    Objection 1. It would seem that the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven. For Augustine says (De Verb. Dom., Serm. lxxi): "We should despair of no man, so long as Our Lord's patience brings him back to repentance." But if any sin cannot be forgiven, it would be possible to despair of some sinners. Therefore the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven.

    Objection 2. Further, no sin is forgiven, except through the soul being healed by God. But "no disease is incurable to an all-powerful physician," as a gloss says on Ps. 102:3, "Who healeth all thy diseases." Therefore the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven.

    Objection 3. Further, the free-will is indifferent to either good or evil. Now, so long as man is a wayfarer, he can fall away from any virtue, since even an angel fell from heaven, wherefore it is written (Job 4:18,19): "In His angels He found wickedness: how much more shall they that dwell in houses of clay?" Therefore, in like manner, a man can return from any sin to the state of justice. Therefore the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven.

    On the contrary, It is written (Mt. 12:32): "He that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come": and Augustine says (De Serm. Dom. in Monte i, 22) that "so great is the downfall of this sin that it cannot submit to the humiliation of asking for pardon."

    I answer that, According to the various interpretations of the sin against the Holy Ghost, there are various ways in which it may be said that it cannot be forgiven. For if by the sin against the Holy Ghost we understand final impenitence, it is said to be unpardonable, since in no way is it pardoned: because the mortal sin wherein a man perseveres until death will not be forgiven in the life to come, since it was not remitted by repentance in this life.

    According to the other two interpretations, it is said to be unpardonable, not as though it is nowise forgiven, but because, considered in itself, it deserves not to be pardoned: and this in two ways. First, as regards the punishment, since he that sins through ignorance or weakness, deserves less punishment, whereas he that sins through certain malice, can offer no excuse in alleviation of his punishment. Likewise those who blasphemed against the Son of Man before His Godhead was revealed, could have some excuse, on account of the weakness of the flesh which they perceived in Him, and hence, they deserved less punishment; whereas those who blasphemed against His very Godhead, by ascribing to the devil the works of the Holy Ghost, had no excuse in diminution of their punishment. Wherefore, according to Chrysostom's commentary (Hom. xlii in Matth.), the Jews are said not to be forgiven this sin, neither in this world nor in the world to come, because they were punished for it, both in the present life, through the Romans, and in the life to come, in the pains of hell. Thus also Athanasius adduces the example of their forefathers who, first of all, wrangled with Moses on account of the shortage of water and bread; and this the Lord bore with patience, because they were to be excused on account of the weakness of the flesh: but afterwards they sinned more grievously when, by ascribing to an idol the favors bestowed by God Who had brought them out of Egypt, they blasphemed, so to speak, against the Holy Ghost, saying (Ex. 32:4): "These are thy gods, O Israel, that have brought thee out of the land of Egypt." Therefore the Lord both inflicted temporal punishment on them, since "there were slain on that day about three and twenty thousand men" (Ex. 32:28), and threatened them with punishment in the life to come, saying, (Ex. 32:34): "I, in the day of revenge, will visit this sin . . . of theirs."

    Secondly, this may be understood to refer to the guilt: thus a disease is said to be incurable in respect of the nature of the disease, which removes whatever might be a means of cure, as when it takes away the power of nature, or causes loathing for food and medicine, although God is able to cure such a disease. So too, the sin against the Holy Ghost is said to be unpardonable, by reason of its nature, in so far as it removes those things which are a means towards the pardon of sins. This does not, however, close the way of forgiveness and healing to an all-powerful and merciful God, Who, sometimes, by a miracle, so to speak, restores spiritual health to such men.

    Reply to Objection 1. We should despair of no man in this life, considering God's omnipotence and mercy. But if we consider the circumstances of sin, some are called (Eph. 2:2) "children of despair" ['Filios diffidentiae,' which the Douay version renders 'children of unbelief.'].

    Reply to Objection 2. This argument considers the question on the part of God's omnipotence, not on that of the circumstances of sin.

    Reply to Objection 3. In this life the free-will does indeed ever remain subject to change: yet sometimes it rejects that whereby, so far as it is concerned, it can be turned to good. Hence considered in itself this sin is unpardonable, although God can pardon it.
     
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  4. sethsherwood

    sethsherwood New Member

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    The unpardonable sin IMO is when one denies the holy spirits witness to them. When the Spirit has witnessed the truth of the Bible or of Christ and they know without a doubt that it is true and then they simply disregard it and say that they never felt anything. I don't think very many people will fall under this sin.
     
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  5. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

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    IMO I think it is only logical for the sin to be unpardonable, because the only way to commit it would be to deny the holy spirit, which would be rejecting Jesus/salvation, which would send you to hell anyway. I think this had to be in the Bible because otherwise you could be a Christian, convert to some other religion, and remain 'justified', so you would go to heaven anyway. If you simply fall away from the religion it is not the same thing, it is permanate rejection that counts ^^
     
  6. Michael3210

    Michael3210 Member

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    Is faith an important concept in christianity? If it is and one believes "the devil" has powers even remotely like God, then what chance do we have of parden if "the devil" is without forgiveness. I choose to believe that all comes from God and it is I that labels it Good or Bad out of ignorance for not being able to see the big picture... as God sees it.
     
  7. Michael3210

    Michael3210 Member

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    Matthew 7 : 2 "For in the same way you judge others you will be judged". If the spirit is an "other" and one judges the spirit as being of the devil, will the spirit judge that one as being of the devil?
     
  8. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

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    Matthew 7
    Judging Others
    1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
    3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
    guess some people didnt get the memo.... :)
     
  9. Nicky_uk

    Nicky_uk Member

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    I really like your post seth. ;) How can anyone who has experienced The Holy Spirit deny him? It would be a consious sin, there would be no doubt in it, no making an innocent misake, it would be 100% consious sin. You cannot experience The Holy Spirit and mistakenly sin against him. The sin is intentional, that's why God will not forgive it. God says you can intentionally sin against Jesus, and you will be forgiven, but dont mess with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is so precious, God will not let you fool with Him. We can all grieve the Holy Spirit through sin, but this is not the same as directly denying the Holy Spirit and sinning against him.

    God has said ANYONE who sins against The Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven. There is no "depending on the situation". It is clear enough - there is no forgiveness for sinning against The Holy Spirit.
     
  10. croak

    croak Trickster

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    This is similar to Islam: if you associate people with Allah, it will not be forgiven. In other words, it is blasphemy against Allah.
     
  11. Christy

    Christy Member

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    With all due respect, RearingArabian - I do not understand what you mean here. Please tell us more. What is blasphemy against Allah?
     
  12. Baerly

    Baerly Active Member

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    I am studying this subject now.It is possible that this sin could only be committed at the time the Holy Spirit was actually doing miracles through individuals in the first century. I am still studying this though. At first and even now I tend to think that it actually has to do with the attitude the individual has towards the word of God. After all the Holy Spirit helped to bring to the rememberance of the apostles all the things Jesus said to them (John 14:26 ; 16:13). This would help me to understand
    (Heb.6:4-6) (Heb. 2:3) (Heb.10:26-31) (2Peter 2:21)(Rom.16:17,18) much better. As long as any person refuses to turn to God it is impossible to accept the plan of salvation. (Acts 13:46) says some judge themselves unworthy of eternal life by rejecting the word of God. So it may be that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit could only happen in the first century and the bad attitudes of people today in principle fit the bill, but actually is not THE UNPARDONABLE SIN.Because anything we do today can be forgiven if we repent (Luke 13:3). Burt Coffman Commentaries has some interesting things to say about this subject. Baerly
     
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  13. Elvendon

    Elvendon Mystical Tea Dispenser

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    From what I know of the Holy Spirit - it is the omnipresent healing love of God - essentially, the highly immanent portion of the divine being. The word (the Son) is present in everything, but it is only fully expressed in the entirety of creation (both physically and temporally) and in the person of Jesus - even so it's possible to misunderstand or misinterpret the Word. The Father is transcendent, and thus denial of the Father is understandable. However, the inherent worth and importance (thus effectively divinity) that permeates all things cannot be denied - because if you do, then it is impossible to empathise with anyone, and thus you cannot be internally devoted to God (or what he represents), which is the base requirement for salvation.
     
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  14. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    Hi!

    The Baha'i scriptures explain specifically that the unforgiveable "blasphemy against the Holy Sprit" refers not to rejecting one or more of the Divine Messengers God has sent to enlighten us, but to wholesale rejection of the Light itself!

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
  15. angellous_evangellous

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    I think that you're making a critical mistake in distinguishing the first century from all others. You seem to incorrectly assume that the Holy Spirit is somehow unable or unwilling to perform miracles in any subsequent generation, which besides being unbiblical limits the power of God.

    Related threads:

    Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
    How does the Holy Spirit guide a person, and why do you reason thus?
    Who is the Holy Spirit? How does He answer our questions? How does He feel?

    On Miracles:

    Miracles and Orthodoxy
     
  16. !Fluffy!

    !Fluffy! Lacking Common Sense

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    I could be wrong, but it seems to be referring to the belief that Jesus is God.
     
  17. lunamoth

    lunamoth Will to love

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    Hey Bruce, I agree with this idea.

    The statement about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was uttered by Jesus in the context of someone saying that the healings He performed, driving out demons, were the work of Satan. In a way that's like saying that good fruit is actually bad, or saying that light is darkness. As long as we are mired in this world of dualism, compassionate action requires that we choose between harmful and helpful, even as we forgive those actions we deem to be harmful. So, our hope is in choosing the Light (Love) as you say, which is our only salvation.

    2 c,
    lunamoth
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    According to:-http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html,

    The following is the unpardonable sin.

    The Pharisees had long observed the sinless Jesus Christ. They observed him doing undeniable and powerful miracles that were, at the very least, clear evidence of power supplied by God. These impressive miracles were freely given in pure kindness and love to release people from obvious suffering and the oppression of horrible evil.

    However, the Pharisees had so firmly set their hearts against accepting Jesus as the Messiah that they rejected the obvious truth before them and perversely twisted it to influence the crowds. They publicly credited the most ultimately evil being in the universe with these precious, godly miracles. In other words, they called the precious and holy Spirit of God, the unclean spirit of Satan. In effect, they charged Jesus Christ with sorcery; one who is in league with Satan. These charges are not only appalling and extremely serious, but clearly absurd.
     
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  19. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    That is right, Michel, when they said Jesus did His miracles by the power of Satan, this was the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, saying the Holy Spirit of God was Satan was the blasphemy.

    Today, people may say to reject Christ, to harden one's heart to the gentle knocking of the Holy Spirit, to ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit and never accept Christ as Saviour and die in one's sins and go to Hell is the unpardonable sin, but technically its as stated above.

    Now, Jesus commanded all men everywhere to repent of the sin of unbelief in Him, and turn around and believe in Jesus alone for salvation. This is the serious error we can fall into today. We, who are vile, dirty, miserable sinners, who fall far short of God's Holiness, go about trying to establish our own righteousness which is as filthy rags, instead of accepting the free gift of Christ's imputed righteous to us. He offered Himself in our place, paying for our sins so we don't ever have to, and His blood washed them all away IF we believed. We all will stand before God very soon, either clothed in our righteousness or in Christ's. When the light is shined, the self-righteous will be in filthy rags, while those who trust alone in Christ alone will shine forth in the righteous robes of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
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  20. !Fluffy!

    !Fluffy! Lacking Common Sense

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    and

    These excellent posts are concise and accurate explanations for the beautiful truth of that scripture. It's interesting how a verse that should be a consolation and testament to the true nature of God seems to elicit so much fear and misunderstanding. Your eloquent comments and links have helped to shine the light - frubals to you both.
     
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